Guest: Nikki Naab-Levy

Release Date: 12/13/2021

Welcome to Trulyfit the online fitness marketplace connecting pros and clients through unique fitness business software.

Steve Washuta: Welcome to the Trulyfit Podcast where we speak with experts in fitness and health to expand our wisdom and wealth. I am your host Steve Washuta, co-founder of Trulyfit and author of Fitness Business 101. On today’s episode, we speak with Nikki Naab Levy, you can find her at naablevy on Instagram, Nikki and I go over marketing, online fitness marketing specifically, again, this is our marketing month. So most of the questions are going to be very similar if not exactly the same for all of my guests.

The interesting thing is their answers, their answers are going to be unique to their business model. And I’m hoping that your model somewhat surrounds at least one of theirs if not all of their so that you get to steal tricks and tidbits from these fitness professionals and health professionals who have great slick clean marketing templates and social media and websites. So again, we go over macro and micro marketing goals.

We go over what website features they decided to use lead magnets, whether they’re using a something like a Squarespace as opposed to a WordPress why they chose those things, why it’s important that you use one over the other dependent upon your business model and your skill sets. Do they have a business coach? If so, what information did they take from them? Was it worth it to them? Do they recommend it to you? How do they price themselves all of these things surrounding marketing. Nikki was a wealth of information.

It was a great conversation, I hope to have her on again down the road. With no further ado, here is Nikki and I discussing marketing. Nikki, thanks so much for joining the Trulyfit Podcast. Why don’t you give the listeners a bio of who you are and what it is that you do in and around the health and fitness commuter?

Nikki Naab-Levy: Sure. Thanks for having me on. So I think the long short, I’ve had a lot of different identities, I would say in the 15 years I’ve been teaching is that my background is in Pilates. But these days, a lot more of what I do is really centered around working through fitness of youth pain or injury, just generally how to get strong or strength training, particularly my interest is for women because I feel like there are just a lot of social barriers to entry for us and a lot of myths around that. A little bit of nutrition coaching.

And then sort of the other half of my business is marketing consulting. For anyone who is in the fitness, yoga or pilates space.

Steve Washuta: Well, we talk a lot about how being successful as a fitness industry teacher of fit, I call it on this podcast is being malleable and adapting throughout your career. And You’ve obviously done that I’ve done it as well, sometimes you have a particular niche that you’re in, or you’re an angle that you use, and then you adjust accordingly.

When the market adjusts, and assume that you’ve done that. And I can you know, the first thing that stuck out at me was really your marketing and your website and how clean and smooth everything looks.

And there are just really no loose ends. It’s, it’s fantastic. And it’s so important in these days, obviously with COVID hitting and people kind of transitioning, and everyone has a foot in the online marketing game, and the online fitness game to have, again, sort of like clean concise marketing. So what was your macro marketing goal? When you got into your fitness business, walk me through how you started and how you made some initial decisions. 

Nikki Naab-Levy: I mean, I would love to say that there was some sort of brilliant strategy behind how I got started. But that really was not the case. I did what most people did were actually I started out in group fitness. Then I was like, Wow, I’m going to go broke really fast and be incredibly injured.

Actually, I was profoundly injured from teaching to many group fitness classes when I was like, I need to do something else. I briefly tried personal training the first time around in my early 20s and ended up it just wasn’t a good fit where I started because they ended up ultimately being a CrossFit gym. That’s nothing against CrossFit. That’s just not my personal style or preference of teaching or work or exercise.

Nikki Naab-Levy: And so I ended up being a Pilates teacher and teaching Pilates privates. And in working for these small studios, there was a lot of I’ll just say dysfunction, and I was very frustrated with it. And so I decided to there was a brief moment where I thought I was going to go be an accountant that did not stick. I decided to go to massage school instead and want me mum to no longer practice massage.

And then when I finished massage school, I was like, Oh, screw it. I’m going to go open space and so I found a really tiny live work loft. The moment that I opened up this space to basically teach private Pilates and do massage I realized that I had absolutely no clue how to do marketing. That was actually when I started deep diving on just trying to like teach myself and study with people to learn, like, how does one actually market themselves, and that opened me into the online world.

Then I just got really, really obsessed with it because my other undergrad isn’t actually journalism. I was like, oh, copywriting is just creative writing where you sell things. That’s kind of fun. And so that really was the impetus of me trying to figure out how to get concise words on a page. But I’d say making my website fill concise, took me 10 years.

Steve Washuta: And obviously having that journalism background, you know, there’s there’s a bit of an advantage there. But was there a business side like a business coach and a marketing side that you had to seek out to help you? Or was this really just a bunch of trial and error, and you and you personally, looking over other people’s websites, let’s say who you liked, and then you emulated?

Nikki Naab-Levy: Oh, I definitely paid for help. I mean, I think it’s the same way that people, I think the best way sometimes to learn something, or always is to invest in something and then be willing to test and learn based off of that knowledge. So for me, I took a bunch of random online marketing courses, and then started trying to implement them, and then ultimately did a lot more kind of more personalized business coaching, with business coach by the name of Melissa Casera.

She’s also a screenwriter in LA and her stuff is really cool and fun. And she’s not in the fitness industry. And that’s actually what attracted me to her was, she was more into pop culture, and all these other things that I find interesting, because I think that one of the best ways to not sound like everyone else is to study from people who aren’t all doing the exact same thing that you are.

Steve Washuta: Yeah, that’s a great point. I never really thought of it that way. But when everybody else is following the same people, and emulating them and mimicking them, then your marketing doesn’t stand out, having, you know, a different flavor of looking at how again, a pop culture somebody in the music industry does their marketing and then you kind of adapting into their style more could certainly make it stand out. Now, your website is fantastic. What website services did you choose? And why did you go through multiple iterations of that? 

Nikki Naab-Levy: Um, yeah. I mean, I’ve done web developers, the last time that website actually really got built out. That’s how refreshing it was in 2015. So it’s held up, I have to say, which is a testament to my most current web developer pretty well. It’s all hosted on WordPress with just a small handful of plugins. I’m still a WordPress girl because I’m not smart enough to learn how to use anything else.

Steve Washuta: Well, I think WordPress is actually nowadays, not the simplest use comparatively speaking to the other. So a lot of people will start off on, let’s say, Squarespace. Wix is certainly the easiest. I would rank them easiest, Wix being the first and then Squarespace and then WordPress, but obviously, you know, if you want your site to be unique, and you want to be able to change it and have more sort of autonomy to what you can do down the road, I think, I think WordPress is the way to go.

Nikki Naab-Levy: I mean, I, you know, I’m I agree with you. It’s not the simplest, but I think it’s one of those things where it’s kind of like the learning curve, right? Whatever you learn on is the thing, that’s the easiest.

And so I you know, I would say if people are going to spend money on something, it’s like, you don’t need a $10,000 site, I don’t have a $10,000 site. But there is something to be said for hiring someone who knows how to build websites. And personally, I would say, WordPress, and Squarespace are probably my favorite, I still am not a fan of Wix, I don’t think I’ll ever be.

Steve Washuta: I agree, it’s too simple. And eventually, you’re going to want to make sure that things are more customizable. So if you don’t have the time to build out something like WordPress, I get it this workspace and would be the second option. I totally agree with you.

The reason you know, I had a conversation recently, and I don’t want to beat this down again, because I talked about this before and I don’t think was on the last podcast might have been on like some sort of ID lot. But some people in the fitness industry don’t have websites. And by thought as well, you know, I get all my leads through Instagram or Facebook.

And the problem with that is, eventually you have no idea if these platforms are going to change their rules and pull certain things down. If you have your entire business invested in something like let’s say Facebook, and there are some for some reason they decide a year from now to not let businesses advertise for free. You have to put a bunch of money into it. Well, then you’re screwed, as opposed to a website where you have complete control over your content and how you display that content.

Nikki Naab-Levy: No, I mean, absolutely. I think people put way too much clout into social media when really it’s you can’t control the algorithm. You can’t control who you’re reaching. You don’t own your content on the platform and Really, I find that in terms of email marketing and sales, it’s like on a local level, people are going to go to your website.

So if you’re a brick and mortar or intend to be brick and mortar, you know, once this whole COVID thing, if and when this ever ends, right, people are going to go to your website, they’re not going to go to your Instagram to look for you, you’re probably going to show up in like the Google search. So that’s one thing to consider.

If you are someone who wants to make money online, at the end of the day, your website and your email list are really your two biggest assets like social media should, in my opinion, not really be where our attention is going. It should be just another form of advertising, but certainly not your home base. 

Steve Washuta: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. Then just just to even add to that point, and continue to pile on here, there is a subset of demographics, who don’t look at the social media. That subset is, let’s say, people over the age of 55. Guess what, they have more money. So yeah, that the 21 year old, who, you know, is in college, and doesn’t have any money. And is, is looking at your stuff.

They want free content, the 58 year old who’s on the verge of retiring, and has a ton of money stashed away, and is willing to pay you $75 an hour to personal train, they’re going to look through your website, they’re not going to look at your IG handle, they probably don’t even have IG. And I think that’s important to understand that that was demographics that have money as demographics that don’t. And where are those people seeking you out?

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, and I mean, even beyond that, like, unless your ideal client is a 20-year-old, you ultimately want to be on the platforms or be in the spaces that your, that your people, the people you’re trying to work with are most likely to be and so I do think that right now, you know, Instagram feels like a shiny object.

I have this terrifies me but apparently, TikTok is the next thing I feel far too old for TikTok. Um, I don’t know, I just in my experience is like all of these trends will change. But at the end of the day, it’s kind of like go where your people are. Pretty much everyone in their mother is on email regarding or the loss of the raves.

Steve Washuta: So your podcast has been going on for how long? When did you decide to start it and what was sort of the process from beginning to grow.

Nikki Naab-Levy: So this is my third iteration of a podcast, the fourth iteration of podcasts. So that’s something to be said, I started in, I started a podcast in 2015, with a co-host. And initially, the reason why I started it was I realized I wanted to be online and basically have an online company. And I was like, Well, clearly, because I listened to a lot of podcasts. I was like, everyone who seems to be making money here seems to be friends with all the other podcasters. There are a network.

So, everyone who’s got any clout, they’re all friends. And so I was like, how do you go? How do you connect with these people without being annoying, and I was like, you start a podcast and you interview them about why they’re incredible because usually, people aren’t mad about that. so I really used it as a networking tool to start to connect with people. Also because I really enjoyed podcasting.

I felt like I had something I wanted to say. You know, after a while, that first podcast, just in the CO hosts and I were no longer in alignment with where I was going. So we turned we shut that one down, I started a new podcast, which originally was under the name of what fitness and fishnets because that went with my current branding, and then rolled with that for a while and then rebranded it. It’s the same podcast this past year as results, not typical.

Because really, these days, I’m really interested in trying to dispel a lot of the misinformation in fitness. And no one had taken that name. So I was kind of excited about it. So yeah, that’s kind of been the podcast journey.

Steve Washuta: I’ve actually had a few other guests on who talked about how their podcast name they were so amazed that it wasn’t taken yet. So apparently, there’s a lot of good podcast names out there still, people who are thinking about it, but But yeah, I think that was a really good point for people don’t otherwise know why people start podcasts.

Yeah, of course, it’s a it’s a great networking tool, but to you know, to get in front of people who do the same thing or do something similar in your industry who are at a maybe a higher level in your industry, but also who had the same level and you’re growing at the same time. And I think that’s important.

And a lot of people this isn’t, you know, if you start if you start a podcast on, you know, baseball, you don’t necessarily have to reach out to the greatest Major League Baseball Pitcher right now. Right? You can reach out to maybe a high school baseball coach, and that allows you as that guy rises up the ranks and continues to grow As you grow with him, I think people need to understand that it’s not just about, you’re reaching out to people who are of elite levels, but people who you think are rising in the community that you want to surround yourself with, as you said.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the other thing is, I think that people think that like, the best guests are the ones who have the largest audience. And I actually don’t think that’s true. I think what makes podcasts so interesting is people are, you’re in people’s ears for what, 2030 minutes an hour, and they really get to know you.

And so I, I think that it has less to do with like, trying to get the most famous guests. And more to do with curating guests and conversations that you want to be having. Because everyone actually has an audience regardless of their reach. And in my experience, actually, some of the best clients I’ve ever had, and buyers tend to be people who listen to the podcast. Because they really do kind of get to know who you are and what your vibe is.

And so I don’t know, it’s just been a really cool networking tool. But it’s also just been a really interesting way to connect with people. Just because I think it’s such a unique platform, as opposed to like, social media, like Instagram and stuff. We’re just so fast podcasts, I feel like it’s like a slower media consumption. That’s actually a lot more powerful and educational.

Steve Washuta: Yeah, I completely echo those thoughts. I think people crave, like a genuine conversation. They’re not just looking to hear somebody who’s, you know, quote, unquote, a mini celebrity. Talk about something they’d rather hear an actual back and forth that that, that leads to good content. And learn about the host and the guests.

I think that’s important. Yeah, absolutely. Is your lead page, or your, you know, the way you format? Your, your particular I know, you have like three different packages, any of that stuff? Are there are there small tips like that you want to recommend to people who maybe are just started up a website. Or just starting their marketing?

Nikki Naab-Levy: Sure, I mean, I think the first thing is, if you don’t know marketing terms. I think it’s important to understand what a lead magnet is or what an opt-in is, right? So the long-short is, that I consider the lead magnet to be or a commune opt in. It’s some sort of free thing that you are giving to people except it’s not really free. It’s like a resource, but it’s in exchange for their email address.

So it’s actually the very first transaction that you’ll ever make with someone. And that gets them on your email list. Which allows you to stay in touch with them, where hopefully, you’re sending them helpful content. So when you do go to sell something, they may be interested in purchasing it from you. Examples of that could be it could be anything. But you want it to be relevant to the things that you do and offer us services.

People tend to think that they need to create. I know, when I was starting out. I used to think that we had to create these like really, really extravagant lead magnet things. These really involved things. But really, it should just be a quick win that your people find helpful. So when you’re kind of considering that for an opt-in, there’s all sorts of things you can do. You can do some sort of live zoom webinar type situation. Then save the recording and use the replay as that it could be like a mini-course. To help people with whatever that thing is that you help them with.

So like if your people are coming to you for flexibility. Maybe it’s a three-day mini-course for like, I don’t know, hamstring flexibility. It’s amazing how solving simple problems really works. But the idea is then is once you create that, you want to put it somewhere on your homepage. And then if like let’s say, assume you’re creating blog content. You can also create opt-ins to go with that blog content.

I would just say that when you’re thinking about your website. On the homepage, think about what it is that you want people to do first. Usually, you either want to direct them to your services. Or you want to invite them to join your email list with that opt-in. And then really, when you are creating any other content. Just think about what you want people to do next. Whether it is to join your email list or go check out your services. Because I think it’s something we don’t think about with the website design. Is like we’re really taking people on a tour of our work. And we really want to be clear in what we want them to do next.

And if we’re not clear on that, then they’re not going to be clear on an either. So if they do find your page, they’ll probably bounce pretty quickly otherwise,

Steve Washuta: that’s fantastic information it really is. Especially the options you can give for a lead magnet not just putting some PDF up there like you said. Having a recorded student call of some sort and putting it up there. I think that’s really good information. You know, I would add to that with the website.

Whatever you think looks good doesn’t necessarily mean it is good or flows properly. So even if it’s just reaching out to your you know, your boyfriend or girlfriend. Or wife or husband or friends or family. Have them go on your page and see what sticks out to them. Ask them you know, say what was the first thing you clicked on? Or did you go they have programs that you can use that cost. The way to cost X amount of dollars. You can see where the cursor is going could see where people click the most and things of that nature.

But you’re not going to have the volume of people coming to your site. If you’re brand new, to really have those statistics matter. So ask friends and family to go on the website, what sticks out where they click on first. And even the name when you’re starting the name, right? You might think there’s a name in particular that you want to use. And then everyone else thinks that name means something different. So it’s important to, to not not just see it through the lens of you. And to kind of expand that out to others.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, and I would take that one step further to say that. As much as we can have an identity crisis. About our work and about our websites, because it is a reflection of us, and it feels like us. We are not our clients. And so I think there’s something to be said, for getting feedback from someone who matches your client. To see what they do with it is really valuable. Like, for example, I would never ask my husband to evaluate my website. My husband, I, my husband is not my ideal client.

So any feedback he gives me as much as I love him would be deeply terrible and wrong. And would send me down the wrong path. And I know this. But also, I think that a lot of the time when we’re writing our website. Copy, when we’re picking images, when we’re coming up with blog post topics. Any of this stuff, we tend to, again, think about things from our perspective, and not who our client is.

Our client tends to know significantly less than we do. Which means that our client tends to have what feels like really painfully boring, overly simplistic questions to us. But oftentimes, those answering those really, basic simple questions. Are one of those powerful things that we can do to educate. And help and gain new clients. Versus trying to say everything in an elevated way at the level that we’re at right now.

I found something we forget is you need to speak to your client. Their interests, their needs, their confusion, and preferably in their language. Not in the language that we the fitness professional uses. Which usually goes right over their heads,

Steve Washuta: yes, very well. But you don’t need, in depth explanation on, what you need to do to get the iliotibial band in order. Right if there’s an issue, because that’s probably not unless you’re a specialist. And you’re planning on working with people who know this. That area, it’s not about presenting your knowledge.

And using the jargon of you know, a physical therapist. It is about presenting the sort of the simple, basic needs of the clients. Especially if you’re in what I do is just general population training, right. I’m not looking for somebody who wants to be a bodybuilder. I’m just looking for, you know, a 42-year-old person who wants you know, weight loss and health and wellness. So, I think that’s a, that’s a fantastic point.

I want to add to something else that you mentioned with, with the lead magnet. Using something that is simple that you could also continue to use with your clients sort of offline. But I call like evergreen content, right. So if you develop something, I think you said specifically, like, you know, if you have tight hamstrings. Here are your five stretches, well, guess what you can print that page out, and you could have that. And that’s when you can give to your on-site clients to not only help them out. But you know, present yourself as a professional who has this information on hand.

So I think it’s important to, you know, you could this content is all as content creators now. Multipurpose, you make a video, you use it, partly for your blog, and then you use it on Instagram. Then you use it with clients use as your lead magnet, that’s the same way your content has to be. You need to be able to have this long-form content and spread all over the place.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, and I would also add to that, that, you know, a lot of time every a lot of people I work with are like, well, I don’t know what to create, I don’t know what to post. And it’s sort of like, actually, if you created a resource for a real person, oftentimes, that thing you’re doing for that actual live person is probably one of the most helpful resources that you could share in a more general sense as a lead magnet or with your audience.

And so I think that sometimes we need to think about this the other way of like, actually, like, what am I already doing? Let me create a version of that to share with other people instead of trying to guess what other people want. Because you’re working with someone, those people are actually probably telling you what they want and need. If you start by serving the people in front of you. That tends to work out much better with finding more people like them And serving more people in the long term, then sort of trying to take a stab in the dark at what you think someone might want.

Steve Washuta: How do you develop your pricing? Are you looking at other people in and around your particular area or niche and development, developing a price point you just know your clients and what they’re willing to pay? Are you taking a shot in the dark or you’re just giving so many options that they have to choose one, what is your methodology?

Nikki Naab-Levy: I mean, can I think that I think the pricing is such a crapshoot and I know that there are all sorts of like theories on pricing, but I I think it’s not terrible to be aware of what other people are charging. But there’s a huge caveat to this which is especially in our industry, most People are undercharging and are not making enough money or charging enough per hour for what they’re doing for it to actually make sense.

I would say if you want to look at what other people are charging, that’s fine. But I think the more important question is to, once you pick a hypothetical price, run some numbers and be like, is this actually worth my time? Is this sustainable, or if I get 10 clients at this rate, am I going to be super tired, you know, stressed out over extended, and also resentful that I charge too little. I think that if you can look at the number or the price that you’ve chosen and go, it feels reasonable that I can get people at this price, right, within reason, I don’t feel resentful about it.

That’s probably a reasonable price. But then I would go further one step further, which is, again, we are usually under charge, so you should probably take that price and increase it a little bit more and create a buffer zone for yourself.

Because ultimately, it really is just kind of a crapshoot, if you really were to look for what people are charging for an online course what they’re charging for Class series, what they’re charging for personal training sessions, instantly, you do need to consider the area that you’re in geographically, if you’re in person and who your client is, but at the same time, I do think there’s a lot to be said for just being practical and doing math and making sure that the number actually makes sense. Because if it doesn’t, maybe that’s not the service you should be offering.

Steve Washuta: Yeah, I agree. I echo a lot of things you said it’s, it’s, again, it’s a very intricate subject here. There are people who just go purely with the numbers and are people who, like me, and you go more with a general feel thing am I do I feel like I’m getting the hourly rate that I should get it, insofar as am I going to be taxed if I work six of these hours back to back to back and then feel like I didn’t get my money’s worth or vice versa.

So I think, I think it’s like most things in life, it’s a fusion of both, you need to see, again, where the price point is in your area, if you’re doing virtual as opposed to on sites. And then you know, find low points and high points in your area. And and then honestly, ask yourself, you know, what is my information worth, because people are intuitive, and they’ll sniff you out.

If you are brand new to this game, and you’re charging, you know, extremely high prices, you’re not going to get referred out, you’re not going to make the money you think you’re going to make and for some people, it is it is best to go the other route and maybe charge a little bit lower because you need to get more clients.

And then for those who are, like you talked about, I have friends who charge $10,000 for courses, right? Unbelievable. And I don’t ask them to finance I don’t know how many courses are actually selling here. But you have to price yourself somewhat accordingly to the market because eventually people will find out and sniff it out that this is outrageous.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, and I also think it has to be in alignment with you and sort of what you believe in what you’re doing. Like I there’s, there’s a lot of situations where I could charge more, for example, and I just choose not to because I to a degree, like again, I want to be paid. But sometimes there’s also a moment of I want things to be somewhat accessible to people and so I don’t think I’ll personally ever be like the $10,000 the $10,000 business coach person like I theoretically I could do that.

But I don’t know if that’s a model I would feel good with and I don’t know if that’s the type of offer I personally would enjoy offering. I like being able to be accessible enough that I can help real people so I think that there’s something with that to where you should value your time and your expertise.

But also I think there’s a lot of like weird information in internet marketing land about like how you should always be raising your prices and charging as much as possible and I’m kind of like Ah, maybe if that’s in alignment with a sort of who you are but for me that just has never felt quite right so it’s not something I ever have the ambition of doing I guess

Steve Washuta: Yeah, I wonder if those marketers and I’ve seen them really ask but people are working with like do you feel like this is representative of who you are and why they don’t believe that matters because they obviously don’t they just push it regardless of the person because I agree with you completely is that that that is the furthest thing from where I want to represent myself but I do I don’t even want to talk finances so I if anything I’m well below the price point that I think I should be when I working specifically virtual printing clients because I don’t want to talk price. I want to help them out specifically.

I want to make sure that maybe it’s the thing that I am worried about my schedule so their schedule has to fit into my schedule. That’s why I don’t take on that many clients but yeah, I think this was pushed to make sure that you have this you know high value marketing piece right they talk about like have one high value Like, like sale thing at the top, whatever that cost 1000 2000 3000 and really work towards that.

I get it from a salesy perspective, but ultimately, you know, building your brand and your business, it has to be commensurate with those prices and what that sells. And if it’s not your, again, your the, the genuine approach to this game is now gone.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, I mean, I think I think it’s kind of like, I mean, business is very much like fitness, it’s very, very personalized, like, can you take a template and get an okay result with it? Sure, maybe. But at the end of the day, the people who can figure out the most individualized approach that makes sense for them is probably the one that is most likely to work.

I think, also, in the online marketing and business space, there’s just a lot of bullshit the same way there is in the online fitness space, where people are telling you these crazy things like oh, you can make $100,000 overnight or whatever nonsense it is that they’re saying these days. And I always look at that. And it’s like, you know, passive income isn’t passive. It’s a ton of work. Like, I don’t care what I don’t care whether your business is online or offline, like being quote-unquote, successful or having a successful launch is tons and tons of work.

I think in the same way that having a dedicated fitness routine, and being on top of this stuff is actually really hard. And I think it really does us a disservice to make these wild claims and promises that we’re going to see some sort of wild transformation in 28 days because for most people, it’s probably not possible. And it’s definitely not sustainable.

Steve Washuta: Yeah, no, I echo those thoughts in that do you? Do you sell anything outside of your fitness-related information? I thought, on your site, I saw that you sold some sort of maybe more of a marketing kind of coach package where you help people with videos and filming and things of that nature.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, I mean, I do I occasionally do educational webinars, so things like how to write your website copywriting, you know, right, and we basically, email marketing strategy. And online marketing strategy is definitely like my favorite, I always tell people, I’m like, I actually am as low tech as possible. I’m not a tech person.

Nikki Naab-Levy: So like, if you need tech help hire, hire a web developer or a tech person, I really help with the marketing and the positioning and the writing angle of it. So I do have sort of an ongoing membership site thing that’s like, it’s basically group coaching. So it’s a combination of there’s a monthly webinar, there are two office hours a month where I actually people can get on a call, and I’ll talk to them and help them talk out their business.

And I’ll look over their stuff and get feedback for copywriting. So that in webinars are, that’s kind of like the consulting side. And then I can do be the equivalent of a private session and movement, I would say would be like, a business consult. So I do those occasionally as one offs for people.

Steve Washuta: I actually don’t think most trainers who know I’m different cuz I had a course for a while that was, you can get continuing education credits through the National Academy of Sports Medicine was called fitness business 101, which was mirrored after my book, I pulled the course Long story short, NASM is all their courses away for free now a majority of them so there’s no point of me like charging for a course. But can you describe exactly why somebody would use a webinar? Let’s just take a personal trainer, how could a personal trainer use a webinar to help their business?

Nikki Naab-Levy: I mean, I think that it’s a way of sort of, it’s a shortcut to figuring out how you want to do the thing that you want to do, because I’m a big fan of practical applications. So I’ll just take, for example, the last webinar I did was we broke down actually the financials, my partner and I everything we did in our last launch, which this isn’t like a brag, but you know, I think, I don’t think we talk about numbers enough in a way that then that kind of actually bothers me, because I think it’s helpful for people to know but we, we, we launched, how did you kettlebells at-home course, it was a live course over the course of like 10 days, which really was like six months of work to prepare for, and we made under almost $17,000.

And so we broke down everything we did, we talked about every email that we sold, we talked about that we wrote, we talked about the strategy that went into it, we talked about how we used affiliates. And so it’s like, for anyone who’s ever wanted to sell an online course, it would tell them the process, a process that they could follow to actually do that. Because I think that it helps to see that go with something tangible.

Nikki Naab-Levy: But then on the flip side, I’ve also done ones where I talk about, like how to structure a series of sales emails if you want to sell a specific product or service. So it’s just giving a framework for what to do because I think so much of the marketing that happens when you don’t understand marketing because it never gets taught to us in the space is you’re like well, I guess I’ll just do another Instagram post and it there needs to be a little more nuance and strategy behind it being Just randomly posting to Instagram, for example, or sending a random email that says, I have a thing you should buy, it just doesn’t tend to work very well.

Steve Washuta: Yeah, and I would add, if you’re thinking about it doing a webinar, I would hope that you do go through a few of them. You don’t need to necessarily buy anything at the end. But you know, do some Google searching, and go on YouTube and watch a few good webinar services that are offered. I mean, there’s people teaching everything now on on webinars, but so it doesn’t really matter, whatever subject you want, but see how they structure it and how they how they put it into the particular format.

There are templates that you can use, and obviously copywriting things that you can use. And maybe that’ll come down the road, where personal trainers by trade. So obviously, we’ve got other things that we need to be doing rather than just marketing all day long. But I think having a basic background of how it works can be pretty easily implemented. Into your marketing as a personal trainer.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, webinars are just a means of educating people. So whether it’s a paid webinar, or a charge webinar. At the end of the day, you can think of it as an online version of a workshop. That you might just present in real life. Or you stand up, and you’ve got a bunch of people and you go. Okay, today we’re going to learn about insert, whatever the thing is. You teach them some exercises, and you give them a template, and you send them on their way. And it’s just it’s the exact same thing. It’s just what is the content?

Steve Washuta: Is copywriting specific to reading as opposed to talking? I know that might sound like an odd question. And I’m not asking to set you up, I actually have no idea. Meaning is what I’m reading. As the viewer of let’s say, a website, different than me hearing you say those words in a video?

Nikki Naab-Levy: I don’t know, I would say the differences his copywriting is going to be some it’s written down. So you’re reading it, it tends to have to be more concise. To the point because no one wants to read where we live in a very fast world. But that being said, I do think that the key to successfully talking about whatever it is. That you’re talking about, and teaching it or writing it down is the underlying message.

So are you clear on who you’re trying to help. What their needs are and what you’re trying to say. The messages that you’re trying to convey to them or the voice. And if you’re not sure of those things, both talking and copywriting will feel really hard.

Steve Washuta: Yeah, I think it did make it clear there. That’s probably not the same. I say that. Not speaking for you. But it seems as if, like you said people don’t want to read it. Really has to be perfect, and clear and concise.

And there they need to hang on every word. Or else they can be out or the video seems to have more. There’s more going on to the video where you can keep people looking potentially longer. Or for other reasons, just because you have more variables than than just a word.

Nikki Naab-Levy: Right. And I mean, you can do copywriting for a video. For example, if you’re reading off of a teleprompter or if you’re putting something across an ad. So I think copywriting can certainly be used in video or can be used to script a video. But it really just comes back to again, are you clear on what you’re trying to say?

Steve Washuta: Well, Nikki, this was great information. Let’s tell the audience how they can find more about you. Specifically what you do. Whether it’s them reaching out to you to get help with some of the things we’ve talked about. Or them just wanting to see your services. How do they best find Nicky,

Nikki Naab-Levy: so Easiest way is probably my website. Which is NABlevy.com, which is a nightmare to spell. So y’all can find it in the show notes. My Instagram is @nablevy. I’m not there as much these days. I actually recently just archive the whole thing because I had a moment.

But whether you’re interested more in the strength in the fitness side. Or seeing how I market the strength in the fitness side. I do find my marketing is a little bit different than typical traditional fitness marketing. You’re welcome to check it out there. And likewise, if you have any questions about business stuff, those are still probably the best places to find me.

Steve Washuta: Awesome. Thank you so much, Nikki, 

Nikki Naab-Levy: thank you for having me.

Steve Washuta: Thanks for joining us on the Trulyfit podcast. Please subscribe, rate, and review on your listening platform. Feel free to email us as we’d love to hear from you.

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Thanks again!

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