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Guest: Rebecca Washuta

Release Date: 2/13/2024

Welcome to Trulyfit the online fitness marketplace connecting pros and clients through unique fitness business software.

Steve Washuta  : Welcome to Trulyfit. Welcome to the show Trulyfit podcast where we interview experts in fitness and health to expand our wisdom and wealth. I’m your host, Steve Washuta. Co Founder of Trulyfit and author of  Fitness Business 101. Once again, I’m going through the format with my sister to talk about trending nutrition, fitness and health topics.

Steve Washuta  :   We’re talking about collagen supplements, we talk about the bench press arch, we talk about pickleball Is it dangerous cozy cardio trend, pilates, protein quality argument AI in health, and why are hospitals failing? I do have some interviews coming up. But I really enjoyed this format. And it’s kind of been in replace of my Thursday and Monday episodes instead of doing a traditional interview.

Steve Washuta  :   And then instead of me on Thursdays talking about something in the health and fitness and business industries that is trending, I kind of combine both of these and do them with my sister. So I think it’s fun. With her nutrition background and my fitness background and US tackling these topics that are trending with no further ado, here’s Rebecca Beck, thank you so much for joining the True Fit podcast, we’re gonna run down our health, nutrition and fitness related topics.

Steve Washuta  :  Some of these will be newsy and trending. And some of these will just be interesting topics. We feel like giving our opinions on here and why don’t you start us off with telling us about collagen supplements. I have been seeing them everywhere. They’ve always been in like a push in protein bars, like hey, this protein bar comes with collagen.

Steve Washuta  :  But really now I’m seeing it spread beyond like the bodybuilding community and just into like, I would call the normal like health and nutrition community. Tell me about these collagen supplements. Are they Bronk? Are they nonsense? Do we really need it? And, obviously, give me your insights into maybe the best brands? If you have any particular brands? You look? For sure.

Rebecca Washuta  : Well, you know, I hear people say a lot. Our ancestors didn’t need this, like, do we really need colleges? Right? And I think you can say that about almost anything, right? You could say that about multivitamins. And I think that argument is faulty, because we’re not living the same way our ancestors did, right?

Rebecca Washuta  : Our soils, number one are depleted, they’re over farmed. So the plants that are growing in the soils don’t have the same nutrients that they did 50 years ago, 100 years ago. And then the animals that eat those plants very similarly aren’t getting the nutrients. And then humans who eat the animals, again, aren’t getting the nutrients.

Rebecca Washuta  : So a lot has changed. And you know, our lifestyles have changed. We are chronically stressed, we’re not getting enough sleep. I think we talked on the last podcast, we’re not moving our bodies, right? Most people are sleeping. And then they’re sitting down to eat breakfast, sitting all day work coming home and doing very much at the same.

Rebecca Washuta  :  And so our lifestyles have really changed. And so short answer is yes, we do need collagen. It’s not pseudoscience. But I do want to clear up a few myths. I think some people feel like collagen is now when a lot of beauty products, right for women like this beauty elixir or like, Jennifer Aniston works with Vital Proteins, and she’s on all their college and commercials.

Rebecca Washuta  : And she looks great for her age. But what’s important to know is that what you’re eating is not going to do exactly what you think it’s going to do in your body. Right. So here’s an example, when you eat a chicken thigh, that chicken thigh is not going to form your quadricep. Right, that’s how we’re going to build up your quads.

Rebecca Washuta  : And so, you know, everything we’re eating is getting broken down into its simplest form. So in this case, it’s amino acids. And so very similarly, you’re going to eat collagen, it’s going to be broken down into its simplest forms the amino acids, and then your body determines where where those go.

Rebecca Washuta  : So there’s a chance that could go to your face, maybe to you know, recreate rebuild loss tissue, but there’s a chance as amino acids are going to create neurotransmitters, or to the zillions of other chemical reactions that are happening in our bodies every day. And so I think there’s this marketing push that collagen is going to help restore your skin and you know, loss loss tissues, sagging skin, wrinkly skin.

Rebecca Washuta  : And that’s not necessarily true. So it is true is collagen is the are the building blocks, right? So you do need those amino acids, that’s important. After 30, our bodies stop producing collagen as in the same way that they used to. So after 30, we lose about 1.5% per year, which adds up over time, right? So by the time you get to your 60s and 70s, it’s definitely something you need. 

Rebecca Washuta  : But what’s important to know is these are the building blocks. But similar to a construction site, right? So you’re building a home, you can have all the materials, but then the construction workers can still be taking a break and go into lunch and smoking cigarettes and not actually building so you need their own materials, but you need to do something with them.

Rebecca Washuta  : And so that’s where a lot of these procedures come into play. If you’ve heard of like micro needling or a lot of these new laser facials like Morpheus, and things like that, when your skin gets damaged, your your body directs the resources there. And so that’s what’s going to build up the collagen. So it’s sort of like a two parter.

Rebecca Washuta  : And what’s interesting I was at Really speaking with my dermatologist recently, and she was saying she had a girl come in who is getting ready for her wedding. And you know, before wedding, some women are really stressed, she lost a lot of weight, she did this laser facials, so it’s Morpheus, it’s micro needling combined with the laser.

Rebecca Washuta  : So you kind of look like a monster for like, a couple days after, and then you know, your collagen and your skin rebuilt, but she wasn’t healing well, and so the girl came in and was blaming the doctor, and my doctor is like, you haven’t eaten anything in weeks, like you’re so stressed about your wedding, your body doesn’t have those building blocks to repair and to give you you know, the skin that this procedure is is supposed to provide.

Rebecca Washuta  : So it’s definitely, it’s definitely twofold. And you know, don’t be don’t be sold on marketing, that collagen is all you need for beautiful skin, it is helpful. On the other side, you know, on the physical side as as opposed to just appearance, there are studies that say that if you do have a history of stiff joints or painful joints, you know, not necessarily associated with an autoimmune disease or like arthritis.

Rebecca Washuta  :  But if you’re sort of on that path, and you notice that you’re achy, they’ve done studies that have said that collagen supplements daily can improve that can reduce pain and can improve mobility in certain populations. So it’s definitely something to consider as we get older.

Rebecca Washuta  : I know they have you couldn’t take it in pill form. I think that’s harder because you need to take a lot of them. I like the Vital Proteins. You want to make sure it’s, you know, a grass fed collagen. Yeah, so I’m, I’m a fan of collage this might be more of a layup question than you. That’s our cousin who is a makeup artist. But do they push it in like a transdermal form? Do they go hey, if you need in your face, you’re something like transdermal, like collagen, you can just like rub on is that? Is that a thing? Or not?

Rebecca Washuta  : Um, no, I haven’t necessarily seen that with collagen, but I have seen them market like specific amino acids. And, you know, a lot of people didn’t take biochemistry. So they’re like, oh, lysine, like Messiah Nene on my feet. I’m like, No, this is just marketing, jump mumbo jumbo. This means nothing. So no, transdermal, it’s, I haven’t seen it work in that way.

Steve Washuta  : Alright, so when you take a collagen supplement, provided it’s third party tested, and it’s actually real, you’re really just taking in the amino acids from that, which maybe are different amino acids, and you’re otherwise getting, and then your body’s using that however, it may use it.

Steve Washuta  : And that could be to help repair your face, so to speak. But we don’t actually know that the collagen is specifically helping that. But we would say in general, it should be helpful. You’re just giving your body more amino acids that it might not be might not have because of your your diet or lack thereof.

Rebecca Washuta  : Absolutely, yeah. And then even in general, even if you’re eating very well, after 30, your body stops producing as much of it. So it’s good to have the raw material, but it’s not magic, and it’s not going to you know, magically change your skin. There’s, there’s definitely a lot of other steps there.

Steve Washuta  : All right, on to the next year.

Rebecca Washuta  : Okay, next one, we’re going to talk about bench press arc, what’s the deal with this isn’t safe? Why are people doing this,

Steve Washuta  : you’re gonna see people on the bench press on a regular basis, and their back is sort of like arched and in like this arc form, right. So they’re, they’re in what looks like a sea curve of their spine. And it started with little, just like power lifters, we’re doing this because you can get the bar from your chest back up in a easier fashion because there’s less distance to cover.

Steve Washuta  : So for those who are trying to see this visually, you know, if I’m laying flat on my back, and my arms are fully extended, as I take my arms all the way down to the bar hits my chest and all the way back up, that’s a long range of motion.

Steve Washuta  : But if I can arch my back, that’s a might push my chest out another 678 inches, then it’s going to be a shorter range of motion, essentially, it’s a decline benchpress what’s a lot of people do anyway, so you’ll see people on the decline bench, which is what you would do maybe sit ups on, right, so your head is below, right, you’re at your ankles, and your feet are wrapped around something or the or the back of your knee is right and you’re doing steps, you can do a benchpress on there, and it’s easier, you can lift more weight that way, and that’s what your body starts to do.  

Steve Washuta  : Now. Here’s the issue number one. A lot of these bodybuilders are doing this and then other people are copying this thinking like oh, this is what they do. So I should do it. We have to ask yourself like zoom out here. Why are they doing this? Well, them these power lifters I should say not bodybuilders, power lifters.

Steve Washuta  : Specifically, they’re doing it because there’s a it’s a means to an end here. Their goal is to get as much weight up as they can and put it back on the bar. Maybe it’s a competition, but it’s not actually it’s helping the muscle to the optimal way because ultimately you want the full range of motion for that muscle and for the joints, right.

Steve Washuta  : And for the ligaments. We want range of motion that’s more important. Yeah. And then what’s your goal? We want to wear the muscle out, right? We want it, we want to make sure we’re working through the range of motion, we want to make sure that we’re tiring the muscle out and doing more repetitions.

Steve Washuta  :  In some cases, maybe some cases more weight punching your goal. Again, I want to get into the specific goals. But but but you the average guy lifting in the gym, right, I don’t probably like if your goal is purely stre ngth, and I just want to lift as much weight as I can show people how much weight I can lift, I get it. Now from a safety perspective.

Steve Washuta  :  Yeah, there are things to be concerned with. Now, most people, most people who are doing this are doing it properly, where they’re using the bridging, in a sense, right, they’re using their legs, they’re bridging up, they probably have strong cores and strong lower backs. And that’s assisting them.

Steve Washuta  :  And again, it actually makes the weight feel later in a sense because of the factor in that you’re in a basically you’re creating a decline bench by doing that. But we’re where it’s harmful, is you’re putting a lot of undue stress on your cervical column. So when you’re lying flat, and your thoracic spine is touching, right, maybe your lumbar is not, there’s usually a little space in between your lumbar and a bench.

Steve Washuta  : But your thoracic spine is giving you a lot of stability there on the right, yeah, double thoracic spine up off. So now you have a lot of downward pressure, while you’re pressing weight forward, which is putting even more pressure, it’s like being in a car accident, right. So like, as you’re pushing weight away from your body, you’re essentially pushing your cervical column further back into the bench.  

Steve Washuta  : So yeah, I am concerned with the average person doing that as far as the cervical column is concerned. And as we get older, almost all of us you’ll hear people like, I have clients who come back from like the like the ortho, and they go, Oh, I have degenerative disc disease. I go, what everybody has degenerative disc disease, that’s just this means you’re older.

Steve Washuta  : You’re aging, right? There’s different forms of it. There’s like, you could be in a late latter stage of it. But everybody has are getting older like what like so? Yeah, I would I don’t get why certain people do it in the gym, who have goals that are not purely to be a strength power lifter, and I am concerned about it from a i from a cervical column perspective for the average person who is not working with a personal trainer.

Rebecca Washuta :  Yeah, again, I think it goes back to personalized fitness. Right? You have to do what’s right for you. And you have to do what makes sense. According to your goals. There’s no one size fits all, especially when you’re doing something risky like that. I mean, just hearing about it makes me nervous. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen it in real life. But just picturing it just seems nerve racking.

Steve Washuta  :   I’m surprised you’ve never seen it, I know that you do a lot of working out at home, and you kind of do your own thing. But if you if you walk into a big box gym, you’re gonna you’re gonna see it all look for it. Yeah, to the extent where you know, these things start trending like anything else. So everyone’s like, everyone is starting to do it now.

Steve Washuta  : Right? And it’s like, why are you doing it? Like, what is? What is the purpose behind this? What do you think you’re achieving by doing this? Yeah, don’t do it. Just see different forms of a two now you’ll see people even like in sort of more of like a Pilates yoga yoga esque movements, they’ll just be bridging on the floor. So I see women do this all the time in my class. Okay, that sounds much safer.

Steve Washuta  : Well, no. So let me let me give you more more more detail, since they’re bridging on the floor. And while they’re bridging on the floor, they have dumbbells and their chest pressing. And I just I don’t, I still think you’re taking a risk there, especially as you if you lift your head up mid repetition, you’re putting a lot of undue stress on your cervical column.  

Steve Washuta  : It doesn’t make sense. The it’s not you’re not challenging your chest muscles more by being in that bridge position. It’s it just just separate those two movements. You don’t need to combine a bridge with the chest press.

Rebecca Washuta  : Yeah, you know, I see a lot. Everyone is like looking around, right? It’s like, What is everyone else doing? Oh, he looks good. What is he eating? Oh, he looks good. You know, what is he doing at the gym? Oh, there’s a new cool workout. Everyone is looking for something new and novel and quick.

Rebecca Washuta  : And it doesn’t exist? No, that does not doesn’t exist, right? You have to do what’s right for you. There’s not one thing everyone thinks there’s a secret like this guy knows the secret. The guy who’s doing the Art Press. No, it’s not a secret. That’s what works for him. It doesn’t work for everybody.

Steve Washuta  :  That’s not to mention that guy who’s doing that as on 600 milligrams of testosterone and some were peptides from China. So now we’re on to a surprise topic for the first time I have no idea what you’re going to introduce. Just go for it.

Rebecca Washuta  : Okay, so I wanted to I didn’t want to talk about this before because I really just want to get like get your honest opinion. I’m going to ask you the question and then I’m going to give my feedback because you’re the expert. So like, let’s listen to the amateur first. So I know you watch the Superbowl. I want to talk about Travis Kelce yelling at Andy Reid.

Rebecca Washuta  : I’m sure you’ve seen the video. It’s like all over the internet. And I think when you initially see it, well first let me say I’m a huge Swifty right. So I was rooting. I was rooting for that Do you see huge Taylor Swift Fan going to a concert in Miami? When she’s here next October, I had to like, you know, cash in my 401 K to four tickets anyway. So we use 50.

Rebecca Washuta : So I’m a fan of Travis. And you know, when you see the video, it’s kind of jarring, right? It almost looks like he walks over and he and Andy Reid kind of stumbles, and he’s yelling and like, to the average person, I think it’s like, oh, my gosh, what’s happening here? And so I think there’s a couple things.

Rebecca Washuta  : One is, as he was walking away, I saw Andy reed like, go to grab for his arm, almost to say like, Travis, come back. Let’s talk about it. So that made me feel like, okay, he wasn’t. He wasn’t that surprised? You know, or even if you look at the look on the Andy Reid’s face, he’s not like, shocked or angry or whatever.

Rebecca Washuta  : And then, you know, the other aspect is, tensions have never been higher, you’re in the Super Bowl. Like, I have to imagine when you’re out on that field. It’s straight adrenaline, right? And like, the objective is to like, go out and like, tackle and crush and you know, all of these things. So you lots of testosterone, lots of adrenaline.

Rebecca Washuta  : And I think it’s unrealistic that we expect these players to like, go out and murder these people out in the field. And then oh, can you also be a nice guy? Like, I think, you know, in the in the press conference afterwards? Yeah. Like, we’d like you to talk like a human but out in the field in the moment?

Rebecca Washuta  : I don’t know. I think like, you have to look at it in context. And, you know, maybe if you were I had a camera on us at all times, there would also be a shot of URI, you know, looking looking like that looking like a monster. So what do you think?

Steve Washuta  : Yeah, I don’t I don’t disagree with that. But I think there’s maybe a more salient point, a more important point here. And it’s hard for people to fathom this who haven’t played football before. And it’s going to be one of those things like I know, and you don’t, so I’m going to try to relate this to something else that people can can sort of maybe digest easier.

Steve Washuta  : And that is having children. So when you when you are part of a football team, it’s not a job. People are like, oh, and Andy Reid is the head coach and Travis Kelce is the employer. No, you’re a family and like you’re spending every fucking second together, right? Doing everything risking, like, literally life and limb. These guys, right for sure.

Steve Washuta  : And game planning. Andy Reid probably sleeps five hours at night like these, like they don’t sleep, the game plan, the game plan, the game plan, they live together, they have one common goal that all 52 guys are going for. These guys are a family. Last night, my daughter’s sick. I gave her medicine. I tried to put her to sleep.

Steve Washuta  :  She probably smacked me in the face five times and said Go away. Go away. Go away. Am I mad at my daughter? No. This is this is this is a family these things happen. This is not an employer, not people looking from the outside. They watch one football game all year. And that’s the ball and they go oh, look, can you believe this guy’s doing this to his head coach. He’s doing it to his father. Okay. Yeah,

Rebecca Washuta  : it’s not a board room. It’s it’s a football field is different than Yeah.

Steve Washuta  :  The connection that they have is not your boss, the for the average person who thinks you know, and I’m not saying this is like female versus male. But just for the person who’s not who has never played the game who has never invested that much time. It is not a boss relationship. It’s a father relationship. So if you really didn’t care, this is my this is my toddler son throwing a tantrum. This is part of what he does on the ball. So I’m gonna calm it down. Yeah,but when you saw it, were you taken aback? Do you think that happens more often than we think and they just had all cameras on him because Taylor Swift is there because not unusual happens all the time.

Steve Washuta  :  Yeah. Multiple times a year on the sideline. I’ve seen way worse than that. A lot of times players will go off to other players. So I’ve seen Peyton Manning go after Jeff Saturday. Jeff Saturday’s his center. You know, the center is the guy who snaps the ball. Yeah, yeah, Manning basically like Jeff’s like, we need to start running the ball because Peyton Manning kept calling like audibles.

Steve Washuta  : And Peyton Manning was miked up that day. And he’s like, fu Jeff, he’s like, we’re going to a place that I say we’re running loose, you just block, you block on the puzzle I run these guys are like, these guys have best friends or family, but they’re in the heat of the moment. And they say things that you would only say to your brother and sister in the heat of the moment or your best friend, right?

Steve Washuta  :  There’s certain things you’ll say to your best friend that you’re not going to say to your boss. And I think that’s that’s maybe that’s what people are overlooking is that this is you can go above and beyond when you know that you’re always you’re not going to lose that connection with that person. This is just it’s it’s it’s family friend connection. Yeah,

Rebecca Washuta  : I mean, they said that about toddlers too, right? Toddlers are their worst behaved around the people they know the best. Like my daughter. Really? Oh, we won’t hurt them. They know we won’t hurt. Yes. And you accept them and you love them. Yeah. That’s really interesting. Okay, that’s nice to get your taken then yeah, if you look at Andy’s face, he doesn’t seem alarmed.

Rebecca Washuta  : He’s not scared. And even afterwards, I think they interviewed him and asked him and he was like, oh, you know, Travis keeps me on my toes. Like he wasn’t like nothing. That was his response. So I think it’s also hard to have a camera on you every moment, right? If you had a camera catching every millisecond of your facelet facial expression and what you did, you could look like a monster to write. Sure. Like it’s doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

Steve Washuta  : Yeah, yeah. I mean, what it happens in the in the biggest of moments. And there happened to be amplified gets amplified and everything, it was sort of a, it was a perfect storm. And if you happen to, you know, kind of get bumped a little bit, Travis’s face was wild. It was the perfect storm of what it could look bad. But again, I think people have to look at it this not like a work relationship, like a family relationship. In like you said, any any heightened environment? Not a big deal.

Rebecca Washuta  :  Yeah, okay. Well, unless side question based off of that, do you think when the players are on the field, right, like you’ve been you’ve been on the field before? Are they? They’re not even thinking about the cameras, huh? Like, do you think they’re all just like, it’s like, The stands are empty? They’re just like playing the game. It’s like, you’re just out there? And it’s just you and the other team? Or is it almost like, you’re an actor, and there’s people and like, you’re, you know, doing things for the crowd?

Steve Washuta  : 99% of the time, they’re not thinking about that. Now, here and there. It’s so in your face, you have, you just you can’t, especially in the NFL, there’s literally cameras that have a zip line that goes across the fields, right, where there’s a camera that goes so it’s you can’t totally block it out. There’s cameras everywhere, but not when they’re on the field.

Steve Washuta  : There’s just there’s so much fight or flight. And every second you have so much going through your mind right before the ball snapped. If you’re the middle linebacker you’re thinking about, okay, there’s motion coming across the line here. You don’t have to be ready to maybe fill this gap. And what is the Blitz? What is this guy doing on top of the fact that you’re just you do have that fight or flight I could get injured on any place.

Steve Washuta  : So your body’s just, you know, you’re you’re, you’re this sort of this Crux where you’re, you’re trying to do a million things. And your mind is working so fast, that they’re you’re just you’re you live in the moment, there is no there’s no other way to do this, but to live in the moment. So now they most of the time, they do not notice the cameras and they’re not playing to the cameras.

Rebecca Washuta  :  Yeah, that’s really interesting. Okay, thanks. Good topic.

Steve Washuta  : On to the next. Okay, next one is pickleball. Dangerous. So I haven’t. I haven’t heard that Pickleball is dangerous in my mind. Pickleball is like ping pong. So like, what? What is happening out there on the courts? Took about picked out probably over the last 10 years, certainly over the last 20 years.

And then certainly over the last five years, really, it’s picked up, right. It’s everywhere. There’s things there’s like whole businesses, if you’ve ever been to a chicken and pickle, where you just, you know that there were a lot of major cities. Yeah, but no bunch of Oklahoma City, but on on Atlanta.

Steve Washuta  : And one, I think there’s one New Orleans too. I mean, they’re all over the place. So basically, have a bunch of pickleball courts that you like, rent out with a group of people, and then they serve food and chicken and burgers and whatever else. And then beer, obviously, right beer, beer and drinks, I think there’s this four bar.

Steve Washuta  :  So that can be dangerous, right? Having a full bar doing any sports related thing, but that’s certainly not the reason yeah, injuries have gone up, or those are loving the pickleball scene because injuries have gone up 200% Recently, coming from that sport, because you have an older population who thinks that they’re the demographic for pickleball. That’s the main reason.

Steve Washuta  :  You have people thinking, okay, tennis is a little even in doubles, tennis, there’s a little bit more moving around, right and pickleball, the court is smaller. For those who don’t know, Pickleball is imagine yourself standing on top of a ping pong table, right? There’s a low net.

Steve Washuta  : And there’s not a lot of room if you’re standing on sides of like a you know, obviously a larger, if you were standing on size, or rural ping pong table, you you would you would crush it, but that’s what it feels like. Right. So it’s a little bit different than tennis where the court is very big. So their thought is okay, isn’t it just the first two blocks of the of the tennis court?

Steve Washuta  : You know, tennis court is out of there as well? Yeah. So there’s paddles, there’s a ball that maybe mimics like a wiffle ball. If anyone’s played wiffle ball as a child, you know, it’s a kind of plastic and different. And the movements are quicker because of the fact that chord is smaller and be the balls moving fast, right? So you have to react quicker. That’s not good for the older population. It’s like jerky motions as opposed to like slow Wiggins.

Steve Washuta  : Yeah, it’s much quicker, right? These balls coming in faster, got to make quick decisions. The lateral movement is everything right? You got to move laterally. You got to move backwards. You have to move awkwardly in quick directions. This is not what is good for old people. So you have this older population at the country club that I used to work at.

Steve Washuta  : Everyone started playing pickleball and they would come back to me injured. This is first of all you are you warming up. That’s the first thing most people are not warming up. Warming up, right. Nobody’s average workout me as a 38 year old I have to warm up for like 15 to 20 minutes depends on upon the day. I think that’s another thing too. That’s a whole Another topic to talk about warming up.

Rebecca Washuta  : You shouldn’t say yeah, you shouldn’t just set some arbitrary time. Like, I’m gonna walk for eight minutes today. Why? Like, what if you need 20? And what if you need for like, feel like feel it out? Because sometimes you’re gonna need longer to warm up depending upon how your body feels from the day before.

Steve Washuta  : What exercises, you’re doing the temperature, what are you wearing, I warm up faster and a sweatshirt most people do, right. So like, all these all these factor into your warmup, but these people are not warming up. They’re seeing their seniors are 65 years old. They’re just they’re warming up by just hitting a few balls. And I’m like, Okay, I’m ready to play pickleball and they’re getting injured. There’s a lot of sprained ankles.

Steve Washuta  : There’s a lot of torn ACLs there’s a lot of broken wrists. There’s a lot of collarbone fractures, because you’re, you know, AC joint, you’re putting your arm down as you’re falling. Pickleball isn’t necessarily any more dangerous than let’s say tennis maybe a little bit more, I would say. But it’s the fact that people are doing the sport as if it’s golf, as if they can just as they can start at an old age and not have a problem when that’s just not the case.

Rebecca Washuta  : Well, that’s interesting, because there was a study that said and Dan Buettner, who wrote the book, Blue Zones, right, the areas and the world where people live the longest. He quotes it all the time, there was a study that said paddle sports can add up to nine years to your life, indicating and I think this is for a lot of reasons.

Rebecca Washuta :  One, as you get older, it helps you from community, right, and you found that community is really important as you get older, it helps you stay active. But I wonder if it’s maybe less about the sport, and maybe more about the way people are playing, right.

Rebecca Washuta  : Because like men, in general tend to be a little competitive, right or get more aggressive because I in my mind, you can play a soft, easy game of pickleball just like you can play, you know, a soft music game of tennis. And that’s, that’s good for you, as opposed to you know, some other sports where you do get injured, right? And you can play if you if you’re playing in a way that’s not damaging to your body, you can play up into your 80s Right?

Steve Washuta  : And a lot of other sports, you can’t so well I have to be a contrarian here because I I’ve never found a hole that I can’t just be a study that I can’t poke a hole in. And these are rich people sports. So of course, you know, rich people are living longer, they have the money, they care more about their their bodies, because they have the time to spend on it.

Steve Washuta  : Right. So like, a 12 year old kid coming out of like, East Harlem is probably not playing badminton, at the cube but the kid in Northern Virginia whose parents worked for the FBI and the government, he’s probably playing badminton. So I do think there’s a you know, it’s it seems more correlative than

Rebecca Washuta  : then causers, sir, yeah, yeah, it wasn’t a double blind, placebo controlled study. But, you know, the evaluation is that if you can continue to move more as you get older and have community, that’s really important when it comes to longevity. And there’s not a ton of other sports for older people, right? Like, other than golf, like, what what do you see people playing in their 60s and 70s? And 80s? That’s helpful.

Steve Washuta  :  Before I answer that, I think the most important part is, where are you starting? How quickly are you progressing? What are you trying to go to my issue is not the 65 year old guy who has never stopped, where he went from, you know, he played basketball, he got a little bit too old, and he moved to tennis. And then that was a little hard. So then he moved to doubles, tennis, and he’s just maybe just downgrading sports a little bit.

Steve Washuta  : But he always kept his body moving. He always cared about himself. He’s not too overweight, he hasn’t had major joint issues, those sorts of things. It’s the people who just literally get up off the couch after not having worked out for 25 years, maybe they just retire, right? They’re an accountant they’ve been sitting with, they’ve been doing the thing we’ve been talking about, right? The call or the bed, whatever, they retire, and I’m gonna start I’m gonna pick up pickleball they want?

Steve Washuta  :   Well, yeah, you maybe have to work up to this, maybe she’ll meet with a personal trainer and say, Hey, can I work on moving laterally, and figure out how to activate those muscles and get my body moving in patterns that I’ve never moved in before before I just jump into the sport. So it’s not necessarily the sport that I’m concerned with. It’s it’s going from zero to 60. And not preparing, not preparing yourself to do the sport and just pretending or not knowing being naive to think, oh, I can I can do that. No problem. Yeah,

Rebecca Washuta  : I mean, listen, when we started this discussion, I said, How could pickleball be dangerous, and I honestly haven’t ever played but I think a lot of people are probably under the same, you know, have the same ideas about it that I do, that it’s safe, that it’s fun, that it’s easy, and don’t really understand the intricate intricacies of the sport. So that’s good to know. There should be there should be some caution. We’re we’re doing good public service announcements here. Watch out people. Be careful on this pickleball courts. So

Steve Washuta  :   I’m going to share my screen for the next topic here, which is cosy cardio. I saw this on Tiktok. And I had some initial thoughts on this that have maybe changed over time, but I want you to see this as well. 

Rebecca Washuta  : So my first thoughts are I love it. And like I know there’s probably a very feminine answer. But you know, I think any way we can get people moving is important. And I think in the last couple of years there’s been this push for these like high intensity classes right. In Miami, we have various bootcamp or peloton are a lot of these high intensity exercise orange theory.

Rebecca Washuta :  And that can be good. However, what I tell clients is if you are already stressed and your cortisol is already through the roof, high intensity exercise is not what you need, because it’s going to further increase your cortisol. And that’s what makes you retain belly fat and can actually be harder to lose weight. So for me, I think the last couple of years personally, I’ve been stressed right with like a two year old.

Rebecca Washuta :  And so now I’m just starting to get back into high intensity exercise. But up until now I’ve prioritized low intensity exercise. So I like the fact that she goes into it in a calm way. And like lighting the candle and you know, watching the TV show, I mean, she’s working out for 40 minutes. So do I think that this is effective to do to be your only form of exercise? No, but I like the idea of incorporating this and especially on days where you’re like, I don’t have it in me to go all in at the gym like okay, let’s do some cozy cardio, like get out and walk for 40 minutes later candle feel good.

Steve Washuta  : I get that. And I think I’m coming around to it a bit more. I think the first time I watched it, I rolled my eyes. And now I’m coming around to it for a little bit. Let me tell you my hesitations or that my first thoughts. I’ll start backwards. She ends the video by opening the door outside and going oh, look at the beautiful morning. We’re wanting to fucking take a walk outside then. Right? Like you turned on like, rerun a rerun of Sex in the City and you’re sitting in the dark alone walking on your treadmill drinking your coffee, like you could have gone outside.

Rebecca Washuta :  So that’s that appreciate that. Yeah,

Steve Washuta  : I guess that’s that was my first sort of problem with it. Again, not not a huge issue. I’m just as somebody if I’m going to optimize this workout, which maybe isn’t the purpose of this. That’s what I would say. Then then we have to look at the coffee which I don’t I don’t want to get go down the rabbit hole unless you do have of saying, Hey, we really need to cut corners in certain places. If your ultimate goal is health and wellness at some point, you have to cut corners, right?

Steve Washuta  : Everything can’t be right about like there’s again, there’s this whole push now and this whole movement to say because these carnivore people got crazy and because they only eat for people normally eat fat people and only eat carbs, people and only eat lamb people, whatever. Not now on the maphis they only that mammals. Like now people just go oh fuck you can do whatever you want at any time. Don’t ever listen to anybody. Just eat whatever you want. So like at some point, maybe maybe we got to rethink how much creamer you just put in that coffee.

Rebecca Washuta :  And then and drinking coffee. I don’t I don’t support drinking coffee. Like while you work out like you should 100% be drinking water and seems like it’s the morning so she just woke up. She shouldn’t be drinking water, you know, electrolytes. But I think the idea is in general, the general concept of cosy cardio, right? Well, I think about it,

Steve Washuta  :   I think it’s good to listen, but you have to start somewhere. If this person is just starting their journey, and other people need to start their journey here. It’s fantastic.

Rebecca Washuta :   She doesn’t look like a world class athlete. She looks like she’s likely just getting started.

Steve Washuta  : What I hope though, well, you know, what I hope is that this is like a lot of things in health and fitness and exercise, whether it’s you finding a healthy drink you like or you having a new healthy habit is that this builds on to other healthy habits and you start to increase these things, not where it’s one of these I’m, I’m fighting the norm and like, this is my new exercise. Screw everybody else. Once a day, I’m going to walk for 40 minutes while drinking my Thuringia, 50 Calorie coffee and watching Sex in the City. It’s like, well, that’s just not going to do it.

Rebecca Washuta :  It’s not going to do it. No, you have to start somewhere. And I will say it is cumulative. Right? It’s because I have clients, I’m sure you have clients that say, I don’t have an hour to work out. I don’t have an hour to work out. So I’m not going to do it. And I’m like, hey, 10 minutes counts, like 15 minutes counts, it’s okay. Like it really does all add up. And you have to meet people where they’re at. But I agree with you that this shouldn’t be this shouldn’t be the end the end goal or the you know, the only type of exercise that people are just attached to we need to diversify a little bit.

Steve Washuta  : That way. I don’t let people say that. So when people say I don’t have an hour to workout, I don’t I don’t I mean, I don’t let them off the hook. I say Well, tell me about your day, tell me from start to finish time you wake up, but I’m gonna go to sleep. Because I don’t want them to think that they get to control the narrative of this argument that they don’t have an hour, right?

Steve Washuta  : And they start telling you throughout their day and you point it out. It’s like, well, I don’t want to do it that hour. It’s like, okay, well, that’s fine. You can say I don’t want to do it in that hour. You can’t tell me that you don’t have an hour if I can find an hour. So and maybe it’s not an hour, maybe it’s 45 minutes, but you’ll but I’ve had that conversation with clients before. It’s like I just don’t have the time.

Steve Washuta  :  I’m like, let’s go through your day. It’s like, well, you know, if you maybe it’s seems like I’m overstepping my boundaries, in some sense, you know, because like, Oh, this is my life. It’s like, well, you made an implicit statement. It says I don’t have this not that I don’t want to do this. So I’m going to call you out on this. And I think that is a that’s another whole, like topic and conversation, but I’m sure a lot of people lie to themselves and say, I don’t have the time to do this when I

Rebecca Washuta  : literally, yeah, and if you if you can trade that out with, I don’t have the time with, it’s not a priority. It’s not a priority for me to work out for an hour, at least you’re being honest with yourself. But, you know, I also, I have a degree in health coaching, right? So there’s a lot of psychology and certain people need their butt kicked, right, they need a trainer to say, make the time get up at 5am.

Rebecca Washuta  : And let’s do this. Other people, when they’re met with resistance, they push back and then they’re not going to do anything. So it’s like, you have to know who you’re working with. You have to know your client, right? And the same way you have to parent your child, you have to like work with your client and figure out what they need. But some people it’s like, okay, you know, your life, you’re the expert in your life.

Rebecca Washuta :  I’m here to guide you to help you, you know, incorporate something. I don’t again, there’s there’s no one right answer. You have to work with the client and their personality and figure out what goes into it. But I 100% agree that people who say I don’t have the time. Nobody has time, like people make time. I think that’s it.

Steve Washuta  : You’re speaking of working with people, maybe that’s like my perception of cozy cardio right away. It comes from working with people as a personal trainer, because it would be you know, my first instinct is that someone’s doing this, and they’re my client, they come to me and be like, I’m not losing weight. It’s like, Well, okay, well, we need to take this up a notch.

Now, this was a great start. Like, I’m glad you’re getting up at 45 minutes earlier, and you’re getting on the treadmill. And this is great. But this is this is stage one. Like when you’ve graduated, like now we have to go states here, we have to start taking other steps to get into, you know, the weight loss journey.

Rebecca Washuta :  We got to go somewhere. Yeah. And then, you know, I think there’s the argument of our whole lives like this modern environment has been designed to keep us comfortable. And like that’s killing us in a lot of ways, right? Like we’re sitting all the time, we get food delivered to our doors, we get anything delivered to our doors from Amazon. And you know, what we found is hormesis, right? This state of your body being stressed, can actually activate longevity pathways, right?

Rebecca Washuta :  That’s why the sauna is good. That’s where the cold plunge is good. That’s why working out until you’re sore and sweaty is good. So it’s like, movement, getting any movement in is better than no movement. But we have to get uncomfortable, right? You have to get uncomfortable in order to grow.

No matter what that looks like for you like, yeah, drinking the 350 Calorie coffee while you stroll and watch Sex in the City. Are you uncomfortable? Because if not, you’re probably not going to see results to share. I think the next topic leads into this perfectly because there’s a similar sentiment that I’m going to have after you introduce it.

Rebecca Washuta  :  Well, I’m interested. Okay, so Pilates, is it enough on its own? Or is this just similar to cozy cardio to you?

Steve Washuta  : It’s very similar to cozy cardio. I am somebody who has applied his background. I was you know, pilates, you know, level two trained, which means I’m trained on the ground and the reformer, I taught many, many, many, many hours of Pilates, probably over 1000 in my life. I still think it’s in addition to it’s not exclusively, I don’t know, if you’re good enough, it’s not cardio.

Steve Washuta  : So if you’re good enough instructor and you’re willing to not just do classical Pilates, and you’re willing to use the reformer and the other Pilates equipment, the chair, and so on and so forth, you know, the Cadillac in other strength training kind of fashions, if you if you have a different background like I did, and you can kind of incorporate all of it, it could, it could be enough, but what I will say is the reason Pilates is trending is because there’s so many people doing the easiest versions of it.

Steve Washuta  : And it comes it comes back to the cosy cardio thing where it’s like, I can tell people I’m working out, and I can feel good about myself, but I’m really not pushing myself. I’m not doing anything that’s tough. I’m not there’s not breaking a sweat. I’m not sore afterwards. I’m just going through the motions. And I see too much of it, I see too much of it not being pushed out. You can make Pilates. Like one of the more difficult hours you will ever have in your life. If you have

Rebecca Washuta  : to live you said that because I’ve taken a Pilates class and it kicked my butt. Like I couldn’t do what some of the other people were doing. I couldn’t walk for two days after so I’m assuming there’s different levels. You have the right instructor and you’re doing the right things specifically on the reformer, not so much an unmatched Pilates. Yes, it’s an it’s an absolute amazing killer workout.

Steve Washuta  : There’s a reason why these you know that started with with dancers who really were pushing this in like New York City in London, but they’re there again, there’s this there’s this new culture of you know, healthy at any size, like we talked about in the last episode, and that’s a big, that’s a big push in the Pilates movement, and people who are just not working that hard.

Steve Washuta  : So What I will say is I don’t want to, I don’t want to, I don’t want to just look at Pilates and single them out. When I say Pilates isn’t enough, nothing is ever enough, you need to do a little bit of everything. So if you’re, if you were, if you told me I’m only doing bodybuilding, I would tell you Well, that’s wrong, it’s not the best thing for your body to to only do bodybuilding because typically you’re only moving in, in two planes of motion and bodybuilding, you’re.

Steve Washuta  :   Moving in sagittal and frontal, you’re not moving in transverse, you’re you’re certainly doing a lot of harm to your joints and ligaments, you’re not flexible, you’re not you’re not raising your heart rate, maybe to the level, you should, at least for the amount of time you should to challenge different energy systems.

So you shouldn’t just do any one modality. So I’m not just picking on Pilates. From from that sense, right? I would pick on anybody, but what I would say is yes, it’s the trending portion, I think it’s because of the healthy at any size, and you can make Pilates. Very, very, very, very, very easy, where you can’t really make CrossFit easy.

Steve Washuta  : Sure. Yeah, that’s interesting, I have a few older clients, you know, 65 plus, that have done Pilates. And I think that is really good for them. Because one of the one of the, you know, just to provide a counter argument, one of the best things you can do as you get older, as you know, is stretch, right? Because stretching really does prevent injury.

Steve Washuta  : And as you get older, falling can create a, you know, a whole a cascading events, you know, that we’re trying to avoid. So I think the stretching aspect, and the, you know, resistance workout aspect, especially as you get older is really helpful. But yeah, is it that is it a if you were doing if you were to do like top tiers of workouts, where does that fall, it probably fair to fall somewhere in the middle.

Steve Washuta  : If you told me I only get one piece of machinery to run, every single thing I need to do on it would probably be a cable machine, but the second would be a Pilates Reformer. So that tells you how versatile it is and how important it is. I ran whole new classes and five, five and six men over the age of 60, who were training to stay in shape for golf.

Steve Washuta  : And they loved it. Right. So you know, people always think about it’s like, oh, it’s just like young women. Now any age can use this. Any gender can use this. It’s it’s, it’s fantastic. So my issue isn’t with Pilates. It’s not with a reformer. Again, it’s with the fact that because it’s so versatile, you can make it really, really, really tough. You can make it moderate workout, and you can make it really fucking easy where you’re not getting anything out of it.

Steve Washuta  : And I think that’s why it’s trending because because of the healthy at any size. A lot of people are joining into Pilates and saying, sure, hey, I went to Pilates class today. And then you found out what they did. And you’re like, Well, that wasn’t, you know, that’s not how I teach Pilates. And that’s not, you’re not getting the most out of the reformer. Let’s just say that.

Rebecca Washuta  : So is there a way to tell? Like if I go sign up for a class at a new Pilates studio? Is there a way to tell levels or like questions to ask the instructor? Or is it just based on like how sore I am after the class?

Steve Washuta  : Yeah, I mean, so So firstly, classes in general, the problem, the problem, it’s tough is that, if you’d have so many different athletic prowess levels, for lack of a better term, it’s really hard to structure a class. So if you come in for the first time, and then I have someone else who’s a regular who’s in great shape, and I have someone else who has a knee issue and they weigh 320 pounds.

Steve Washuta  : it’s really difficult for me to structure a class where I’m going to be able to get all three of you a great workout. Unless you’re a very, very good instructor. And I’m just going to be honest, there’s not a lot of those, most instructors are not good because it’s a low barrier to entry. Pilates is a little bit higher barrier to entry than then let’s say personal training, because the hours you have to spend and because it’s a more expensive certification, but it’s still low barrier to entry.

Steve Washuta  : So there’s more bad, there’s more bad instructors than good instructors. So it was it was really hard to tell do your due diligence on online, obviously read the reviews. Yes, there’s always there’s always the notes on the classes to say like this is intermediate level, this is advanced level, this is beginner level, things like that, obviously, you know, pay attention to that. But what I would do is I would always take an individual class first for anything, if you can take the one on one class, to get acquainted with your abilities and the equipment before you go hop into a class.

Rebecca Washuta :  That’s smart. Okay, cool. Gotcha.

Steve Washuta  : Now, protein quality argument, this comes up all the time. Typically, you’ll see maybe there’s a new study that has come out. Maybe it is just a trending video. Obviously, we there’s been a bunch of documentaries over the past three or four years, there was that big vegan documentary that basically the guy came out and said something to the extent of hey, all of these research that has been done in the past is wrong on protein quality, because of where you digest it.

Steve Washuta  :  I don’t know, the problem or something like, you know, just some crazy science that that that people couldn’t refuse, as most people said, Hey, throw out that protein quality stuff. We don’t believe that animal protein tene has a higher biological value than plant protein. And then you know that people discuss back and forth. What is your sort of macro thoughts on this? And then maybe any insights as to what you know why people argue about this constantly? For sure.

Rebecca Washuta  : So, in full transparency, I haven’t seen the new Netflix documentary I knew, I know, there’s one of them. And there’s basically like, they take two twins, and one follows a vegan diet, and one follows a meat eating diet. And I haven’t seen it, but I don’t need to watch it, right, because I read the research articles, right? I’m a professional, I don’t need to watch the mainstream media. So here’s what’s important to know.

Rebecca Washuta :  And here’s what I think people need to consider. Don’t here’s the disclaimer, don’t take advice from anyone who isn’t willing to change their opinion based on new research, right? So I’ve been a, I’ve been a meat eater. I’ve been a vegan, I’ve been a vegetarian. And now I’m a pescatarian.

And, you know, some of that is based on preference, but a lot of that is based on how the research has evolved. So I think, you know, if you are following someone who has committed their life to veganism, or following someone who has committed their life to the carnivore diet, that’s the only information they’re gonna give you.

Rebecca Washuta :  And like, honestly, if you give me any topic on the internet, and said, like, why are grapes bad for you? I could find you a research article from somewhere that talks about why grapes are bad for you. Right? So it’s like, it’s it. Everything can be biased based on you know, choking hazard. Yeah, exactly. So you know, I think people have to take that with a grain of salt. Here are the facts.

Rebecca Washuta :  plant proteins are full proteins. I know, there’s like a lot of misinformation out there that says plants are missing amino acids, plants are low in certain amino acids. They’re low in Messiah mean, they’re low in tryptophan, and lysine, but they technically have all of them in there, if you look at the chart. Now, plant proteins also are a little bit more difficult to digest.

Rebecca Washuta :  And here’s why plants have really healthy fiber. And fiber is great, right? Fiber can lower cholesterol, it’s great for our for our gut microbiome. But sometimes fiber can get in the way of digesting plant protein. So you’re not gonna digest it as easily, say, from a leafy green salad as you would from eggs or chicken or beef. Right. So I think, you know, that’s important to know. And that’s, that’s not debated.

Rebecca Washuta : Can you get all of the protein you need from a plant based diet? Yes. Do you need to be more intentional about it? Yes. But here’s what I’ll say. And this goes back to what we talked about before, what’s important are your goals, right? So if your goals are performance, it’s going to be better to have an animal based high protein diet, because you’re going to be able to get more protein and that protein is more bioavailable, it’s, it’s more easily, you know, digested and absorbed.

Rebecca Washuta : If your goal is longevity, you should be eating low protein and plant based. So they’ve done lots of studies where people who have higher assigning intake, which by finding comes from animal protein, have much lower life expectancies. And just, you know, anecdotally, I know, you know, this, bodybuilders don’t have long lives, right?

Rebecca Washuta :   Bodybuilders aren’t living into their hundreds, right? The centenarians that are in these blue zones, right, like Okinawa, Japan, are lean, and they’re eating mostly plants. And so yes, you could argue that that’s an observational study, but there’s been so many of them. And they’re, they’re actually have been, you know, more traditional, double blind, placebo controlled studies about the specific amino acids.

Rebecca Washuta :   So if you talk to any longevity researcher out there, Dr. Stevens declares one out of Harvard, a low protein diet is best for longevity, because it puts your body into a hormetic state, right hormesis? Well, we talked about, it’s good for your body to be stressed. So same thing with the sauna and the cold plunge and working out very intensely, or fasting, sometimes it’s good to have certain periods where our body’s in a stress state, it can turn on our longevity proteins.

Rebecca Washuta : On the flip side, if we have adequate protein all the time or excess protein, we’re not going to it’s not going to be able to trigger those longevity pathways. So, again, depends on your goals. Are you looking for longevity? Or are you looking for performance?

Steve Washuta  : What about just the numbers have biological value of the protein? So it you know, if you couldn’t look up a chart, let’s say on Google images, I could type in biological value of proteins and it’s going to put up you know, I don’t know whey protein concentrate, whey protein isolate meat, protein, pea protein, soy protein, is that is that not accurate?

Rebecca Washuta :  No, it is. So animal animal protein is more bioavailable across the board. It’s easier to digest the fibers not getting in the way of of digesting the protein, but that’d be said, I don’t think you need as much protein as everyone thinks, right?

Rebecca Washuta :  It’s point eight grams for per kilogram. And some people, you know, obviously do double or triple that. And there’s there’s some researchers out there that are really pushing protein again, it’s like it’s very polarizing people are saying you need more than 30. People are saying you need less protein. I think it’s based on the goals.

Rebecca Washuta :  But generally speaking, yes, animal protein is more bioavailable, it’s easier to digest. But you can reach those goals. You’ve seen people who are bodybuilders who only follow a plant based diet, but you just have to be very intentional about it.

Steve Washuta  :  Yeah, people not I talked about this whole time, it was a good point that you made people conflate vanity and health, it’s sort of a pitch. When I go on other podcasts, that’s typically the topic that I touch on the most of the people that want me to talk about that.

Steve Washuta  :  And it’s that, yeah, I do agree that having a certain amount of protein, which you need, because it so from a muscle building standpoint, it’s sort of like a light switch, where if you don’t have enough protein, you’re, you’re not going to be able to rebuild that muscle. So you can you can’t be under a certain amount of protein. So it is important to have protein.

Steve Washuta  : And from a visual standpoint, if the I think part of the thought process is if I’m eating more protein as a percentage of my total calories, with all the kids called macros today. And it’s like if I have more protein, percentage wise, well, then I’m going to be eating less fats and less carbohydrates. And a lot of times the fats and carbohydrates are worse, not all the time.

Steve Washuta  : But a lot of times the fats and carbohydrates that they’re eating aren’t as healthy or nutrient dense foods. I’m not saying in general, right, I’m saying their fats and their and their carbohydrates. If, if you’re if your carbohydrates are coming from, you know, a bag of a bag of chips and a pop tart, but obviously, you’re gonna want to have more protein because you’re eating shitty carbs.

Steve Washuta  : So so I get that, and I get the bodybuilding community and the vanity community. But that’s not the same like you said, it’s health. I see the future I work with seniors or I used to in a large extent, I would say 70% of the population I worked with was over 55 for a long period of time. And none of those people were bodybuilders, none of those people were lifting like bodybuilders, none of those people were packing on muscle.

Steve Washuta  : And they all those people had things in common and they were all lean. They were focused on low impact cardio, they eat healthy and clean, but they didn’t have an exorbitant amount of they weren’t eating to two grams of protein per body weight a day, right? They’ll just 170 pound men who were 65 years old playing golf every day and in great shape weren’t weren’t wolfing down three inch and 20 You know, grams of protein.

Steve Washuta  : So I do think people lie to themselves a little bit on purpose, because they want to look a certain way. They have they have ulterior motives of maybe getting the girl next door or looking good online. And then they trick themselves into believing, oh, this is health, but that’s not health. Sure.

Steve Washuta  : No, no, no, it’s like, let’s let’s look at your lab values. How are your kidneys doing processing all that protein and then again, your if your diet is not optimal, our bodies are these intelligent machines where excess protein can be turned into fat, right? Like this is how our ancestors survived everything can you know in the same way where like if you’re on if you’re on a keto diet, it is providing, you know, the ketones can provide glucose for your brain.

Steve Washuta  : So it’s not eating excess protein isn’t like a failsafe, right? I think people are just like, well, I’ll just eat tons of protein. No, it doesn’t work like that. So if you read it depends on not just how many macros you’re getting but the quality of the macros what’s the quality of the protein you’re getting? Are you just having processed bars?

Rebecca Washuta  : Are you having grass fed steak? Are you having pasture raised eggs? Right so the how is really important like not instead of the what it’s the How are you consuming it? And like how was it processed? That’s also super important. Agreed. Cool. Oh, next one. Okay. Lots of topics today. Okay, next topic AI in health and fitness. are we doomed? Or is it gonna replace all of us?

Steve Washuta  : I want to say I love artificial intelligence I’ve been reading and studying might not be the right word, but I’ve been reading and consuming information on AI for years using it even using it but I just mean reading sort of the concepts I mean, there’s whole like big What do you call it when you when you meet? Why am I like conventions?

Steve Washuta  : Like there’s a there’s been AI conventions for years because there’s a lot of people who have this like doomsday predictions like Terminator ask, Hey, listen, AI is coming for us once it’s like sentient enough and it passes what we call the Turing test, which means you can’t tell the difference between AI and human and it has like some form of its own Consciousness it’s going to take over. So it’s it was interesting.

Steve Washuta  : It’s scary, who knows what’s to come and I’m, I use a lot of AI for my businesses, a lot of different AI. Right now I pay for three or four different AI programs that really helped me expedite content content creation. It was funny because we always thought AI was going to take over blue collar jobs, but really took over white collar jobs. So I can write like legal briefs better than most lawyers now. 

Rebecca Washuta  : Yeah, I saw something that is like aI got the top score on an LSAT. Like they let al take the LSAT isn’t just multiple choice. Outside is like riding? 

Steve Washuta  : Yeah, there’s waiting. There’s other things to go. But it hasn’t taken over blue collar jobs, just because it wasn’t easy enough to do that wasn’t designed for that. Now, will it eventually? Yeah, I mean, I, I don’t think there’ll be people driving trucks in 10 years.

Steve Washuta  : That’s just my opinion, I think AI will be driving trucks. And there’s gonna have there’s gonna be a shift in how the world works. From from an economic standpoint, but getting back to our industry, it’s great in the health industry, like what I was saying the medical industry, which my wife works in, because you’re able to compile all, there’s no, there’s no industry that has more information than than that industry.

Steve Washuta  : So now you get to complete all that information and then really see what’s going on. So when you’re looking at something, let’s say like, like an x ray, or a scan, you’re gonna have a much better ability to see and it’s it’s tough even for the best radiologists to always hear eliminating human error. Yeah, living human error. 

Steve Washuta  : And they’ve even found that they did a study on like eyeball scans where they were scanning, they took they put, like, honor, like 4 million different eyeball scans into a computer because they were looking for something like cataracts. I don’t know, don’t quote me on that.

Steve Washuta  : But what ended up happening with the AI somehow the AI told the difference and genders are looking at this, it was able to tell with a 99% accuracy if it was a male or female by looking at the the eye the eye scans, which were written which the radiologist could do. So you know, there’s there’s just this there’s so much interesting, cool things coming down the pipe as far as AI and health and medical.

Steve Washuta  : Now, in our professions, it’s a little scary. And I would actually say in your profession, it’s It’s scarier than mine, I think, sure, I think personal training has this cool thing where being with your personal trainer in a room for an hour is just something that you can’t replicate.

So even me someone who is built as building part of my business personally and from from my portfolio building truly fit out as an online business, fitness business, there’s nothing that takes the place of like being there personally with your trainer one on one, not because not only because of the the they can see what’s going on, they can walk around your body 360.

Steve Washuta  : But it’s just the report and the camaraderie and you know, that just like being there with them, whereas in, you might be able to write out a diet just by looking at some, like every metric in someone’s body, right, looking at all their labs, looking at like, what they ate the day before how they felt last week, and just putting in information that we couldn’t even imagine that was important genetics, putting it all together and being like, this is actually the optimal food that you can eat. So I do think it could take our jobs, but I think it’s more likely to take your job than my job.

Rebecca Washuta  : Well, I think what I have working in my favor is people need more than just information, right? I think you can say, hey, we have the smartest AI bot in the world that created the world’s perfect diet for you follow this? And they’d be like, no thanks. Right, and people wouldn’t do it. And so you know, I think a lot of what I do too, similar to how you work with clients is it’s new. It’s technically called medical nutrition therapy.

Rebecca Washuta  : And it is therapy, a lot of it is like understanding why like, why didn’t you eat the kale salad? Like what happened? Oh, you got in a fight with your wife. Okay. And that made you feel stressed? And then you ate ice cream? So it’s like, a lot of it is this like therapeutic component? And I think regardless of what happens with AI, you can’t really replicate that. Right?

Steve Washuta  : Yeah, I agree. So what can be replicated? And from in both of our industries is the perfect workout and maybe the perfect, written out diet for the week, or a better one that maybe you and I could ever design? Who knows? But for sure, that’s only a small piece of the puzzle of what we do. Right? So you’re also helping them from a psychological and mental perspective. You’re helping them

Rebecca Washuta  : Yeah. People are coming in to talk to you people are coming in to chat with you about things and you know, what I found is also be

Steve Washuta  : able to say no, so sorry to interrupt, but also. So if you’re a boss says like, this is the perfect thing. Or, like, what if they’re like, Well, I don’t have access to that, like, I can’t get blueberries. My local grocery store doesn’t sell them in the month of July. So it’s like, Hey,

Rebecca Washuta  :  I hate doing squats. I don’t want to do squats, right. I said do you like how can I do abs without laying on the ground? And you’re like, here you go and whatever. Yeah, I think there’s something about it. You can’t replicate and you know, how long have we had automated Good customer service, right when you call your bank or when you call anybody when you call the airlines, and it’s like, I just want to talk to a human how many times you said like,

Rebecca Washuta  : Representative representative, right? Like, sometimes you just want a person to talk to? And I think yeah, so I’m not worried about it from that perspective. I think there’s like that degree of human interaction. I mean, unless it gets so good. I think that degree of human interaction will always be really important. And that’s, that’s really what I spend my time doing. Like I don’t give my clients meal plans opinion, I just couldn’t agree more.

Steve Washuta  :   I think it’s an important point I just want to hit on is that I’ve said this before in other podcasts. Sometimes, whenever you want to zigging you want to zag and when everyone’s going the route of saying, like, oh, I can give you the perfect diet by just plugging me into a program. And we can just program program program program.

Steve Washuta  : And it’s so robotic, literally right now with AI, there is something to be said about everyone becoming lonelier, and people really just found a human connection and to do more to upcharge. And sell yourself and sell the connection and sell the personable action. Rather than sell the information, write the information, anyone, everyone’s going to have access to the information.

Steve Washuta  : So you’re, you’re not privy to that alone, everyone has access to that now what you need to do is say, hey, what I what I provide is sort of maybe like a, what I call crystallized knowledge over time, like I’ve gained all of these knowledge through all of my different experiences in fitness, in conjunction with a care that no bot can can ever represent.

Rebecca Washuta  : And you can listen and you have empathy. And that’s mainly what people want, you know, they want people to listen to them. If you had a rule where like, Hey, we’re going to do a personal training session, there’s no talking allowed, I would assume you would have zero clients, right? Like if I said, Hey, I’m not going to speak to you, I’m just going to hand you a meal plan, I would have no clients, a lot of it is that we’re, we’re so charming and personable.

Steve Washuta  : Yeah, I couldn’t I 100%. But I will say that there is a space for that that’s a whole nother topic. There’s a great book called fitness business one on one with the certifications don’t teach you. In it, he talks about direct trainers and demonstrative trainers, and some trainers are more direct, they just want to tell you about the body and walk you through the process almost more like a like a physical therapist.

Steve Washuta  : And other trainers are a little bit more demonstrative. They, they might not know the body as well, they might not have that science and math brain. But they’re really good on putting on a show and motivating you and they’re better on that side. Ultimately, we want to be we want to fuse both of those skill sets. But typically, you start out as more of one than the other and then you grow over time.

Steve Washuta  : But like when I used to do my kickboxing sessions, I only had 45 minutes. And I was talking to clients all day long. This was my break. So I told my instructor, there’s no chatting here that’s actually on the arm coming in. And I want you to just perfect my form. Tell me if I’m throwing my jab wrong. Tell me what I’m going through, right? We don’t need that this doesn’t need to be fun. We’re not friends, I want you to be a robot with me. And he was fine with that. Because I was upfront with like, that’s what I needed in that.

Rebecca Washuta  :  That’s what you needed that day. But maybe you’d come in the next day and you’ve gotten you know, a fight with your boss, and you do want to talk to someone. So it’s nice to always have that option.

Steve Washuta  :  Yeah. Last topic here, I’ll let you introduce it.

Rebecca Washuta  :  Okay, last topic. I’m really interested to hear your perspective here. The the economy in general is struggling, but hospitals in particular, seem like they’re failing private public across the board. What what’s happening and where do we go from here?

Steve Washuta  : First, you know, as far as things are failing, when you look at it, from a general public perspective, it’s very hard for us to understand when you look at the numbers, because a lot of these businesses are in the red, but they’re not failing, because they have a ton of money going into them, whether it’s like federally funded or state funded or private funded, something like Uber Ubers, in the Red River doesn’t make money. And people like, wow, also, that’s for tax purposes. Right? If you don’t make money, you don’t have to pay taxes.

Steve Washuta  :  Keep going. Yeah, I mean, some of it is when you look at someone like an Elon Musk or something who basically takes he takes loans out, because you don’t pay taxes on debt. And then he has shares of his company, because there’s worth so much that that the bank can take, right, so that’s what he’s putting up as collateral. He puts those up as collateral.

Steve Washuta  :  So him and Jeff Bezos, and these people don’t don’t ever have to actually pay themselves a salary. They don’t have to pay anything and circumvent taxes. But the actual businesses, some of them just don’t make money because they just keep having investors pouring more money in until that day that they get to a certain point.

Steve Washuta  : So if like something like Uber, when there is AI, automatic driving, they’re going to make a ton of money because they don’t pay their drivers their drivers or labor costs or 70% of their costs. So that’s when all the money comes in. But yes, some of it is because of tax implications. They’re fudging the numbers and going on, but, you know, I think the number is something like 50% of states, so 25 states

Steve Washuta  : So, inside of those 25 states, 25% of those hospitals are failing. So 1/4 of hospitals in, in 25 states are failing. And it’s mostly in rural areas. In the, there’s, there’s a few reasons why number one, is, it’s really hard to get good physicians. I know this, my wife’s a physician, you get recruited to go to these places. But if your physician, let’s say you’re an orthopedic surgeon who could make $460,000 in South Beach, or you can make $515,000 in North Dakota,

Rebecca Washuta  : where are you going? Do I want to take that extra 4550 grand at that point to go to North Dakota? Or do I want to live in southeast where I can actually spend that money and have a good time? So it’s very hard to get people into rural areas, good, good physicians, and to get them to stay there for the community.

Steve Washuta  : That’s that’s one problem. The second problem is hospitals are they’re not looked at as like the fire department or the police department. So with the police department, or the fire department, you pay them not just for doing services, but for being active and ready to to do surfaces, sir, yeah, whether they get a call that day or not. 

Steve Washuta  : So no one comes to the police department at the end of the month, and says like, how many arrested you have? How many tickets did you write? How many speeding tickets? Did you write? How many, you know, whatever detective cases are you on? And we’re gonna give you a percentage of each based upon the insurance model, right?

Steve Washuta  : That’s not how it works. Because they have to, they’re getting paid for the chance that they might be used that hospital and the medical industry doesn’t necessarily work that way, right? They’re getting paid for the services they do. But they’re on call, they’re on standby. They’re always there. The employees are there, the buildings there, the lights are on.

Steve Washuta  : And we’re not we’re not, we’re not using the pay scale model in the same way as we would again for a fire department or a pool or like a police station. So I think that’s that’s another part of the problem. Obviously, the the whole insurance model is it doesn’t work from backwards. It doesn’t work with this many people. I think it could work.

Steve Washuta  :  A lot of things can work in, it wouldn’t when they’re small. But when it gets this big, it just doesn’t work well. And we’ve seen that time and time again, I don’t have the answer to like, how do you rip the insurance model out? I don’t think it would ever happen unless the doctors themselves were the ones saying like, hey, like, we’re not going to like we’re not going to do this anymore.

Steve Washuta  : We’re gonna we’re gonna take some sort of step backwards outside of like, er, doctors. And we’re going to go on strike unless we change this insurance model, because there’s just too much money involved in it. But I do think from like a rural standpoint, what could be done is that these people have to start investing money into their communities so that they can get good doctors

Steve Washuta  : So I’m in a place in a very rural place, where there’s like, there’s like, no downtown, if I’m the hospital, I buy up or loose stores inside of their downtown, which literally, I would say 80% of the businesses don’t exist in the small town I live in there’s there’s the scope, there’s the skeleton for them, right? They had a downtown, they had a burgeoning downtown in 1940. It’s just not there anymore. Because everyone moved out of rural areas. What would you do? You buy up those businesses, you make it an investment, it should be cheap.

Steve Washuta  : It’s not like you’re buying space in in South Beach, right? You’re buying space in Noblesville, Texas. And then, and then build up those businesses, and you make your community thriving, you have to push a lot of money into your community, if you’re these big hospital projects, especially private hospitals, who have a lot of money and say, How do I recruit doctors to come here to stay in these communities to help to help everybody.

Rebecca Washuta  : So I think that’s a really interesting model. And it’s been done before. So before I lived in Miami, I lived in Philadelphia and not not necessarily at and at a hospital, but the universities were doing this right. So for anyone who’s not familiar with the Philadelphia area, University of Pennsylvania, which is an Ivy League school is in West Philadelphia, right in West Philadelphia, if you watch the Fresh Prince growing up, it’s like not a great area. And so what the school

Rebecca Washuta :   What school did is they bought up a ton of property around that area for professors for students, and to really revitalize the area and make it nicer. And then Temple University is in North Philly very similarly.

So they didn’t do it when University of Pennsylvania did it, but now they’re starting to do that. So it’s like, if you want to have this institution that is going to last and has been a draw in the people that you want, right? In that case, professors, in this case, doctors, you have to invest in the community. I think it’s I think it’s essential. That’s

Steve Washuta  : a great point. I didn’t think about that. When I was in Savannah, Georgia SCAD Savannah College of Art and Design did the same thing. I mean, they went from having, you know, two or three buildings in the downtown area to there wasn’t a building that was that was for sale or for rent that SCAD didn’t scoop up and you turned around and two years later, every single building was a scab building because part of their I get it part of their portfolio of investing is just saying this is a good investment like this.

Steve Washuta  : It’s real estate Eat. We’re in a downtown area. We’re in Savannah, Georgia, why not? Why not sit on this? Even if we don’t have to use this building right away? Why not sit on this? And then make it something and invest in the community? And I think that’s, it’s it’s something that the hospital kind of executives and people just don’t get because there’s so they’re not entrepreneurs, right.

Steve Washuta  : They’re so one track minded. They’re, they’ve been following the path. Sure. telling me what to do in in high school and college and medical school and residency, and this and they’re always trying to like appease everyone and do the right thing and follow the right thing and get good grades. And this takes and this takes a risk taker mindset, right?

Steve Washuta  : Like I got to step outside the box was taken out and and even the other people who run these hospitals are the same way. They will have like three master’s degrees in some sort of business thing. They’re not, they’re not more Cubans. Right? They’re not they’re not people who are just like willy nilly taking risks. And I think it takes a risk taker to start building communities up.

Rebecca Washuta :   Yeah, I think they’re gonna have to and you know, to go go back to a point you said earlier, comparing them to like the firefighters or the police force, right, where if police got paid off of how many tickets they wrote, or how many people they arrest, you’d assume there’d be some more arrests, right like that, that’s incentivizing them to do more of that.

Rebecca Washuta :  And, and similarly, you know, Kayla’s, a physician, I have friends who are doctors and surgeons and they have a quota they need to hit or they’re, they’re incentivized to do surgeries, right. They’re incentivized to do things. And so, you know, it becomes this world where it’s not healthcare, it’s sick care, because if everyone tomorrow, like, took a pill, did a thing got super healthy, they wouldn’t get paid, right?

Rebecca Washuta  : Where it’s not like that with the cops. If there’s no crime in a neighborhood, you think this the cops who are great, if there’s no, if no one is sick, you wouldn’t say the doctors are great, right? So it’s just it’s kind of backwards, where like, we’re not incentivizing doctors to help people prevent illness or prevent disease, right. Because if no one’s going to the doctor, and no one’s getting surgeries, no one really gets paid. So it’s like, it’s backwards, it doesn’t make sense,

Steve Washuta  : revenue sharing that they have RVU models, the most, actually, most places, most hospitals run like that now. So maybe your first year or two, you will not be on one of those models, because they need to see how many patients you see in a given month or year a week.

Steve Washuta  : And then they crunch the numbers and say, okay, you know, if you see x amount of patients and do this, this many procedures and see this many type of patients, because things are structured in for those who don’t know, like, basically number tears. So if you come into the office, and I just see you, maybe for 20 minutes, and you told me that you sprained your ankle, and I go, No, you did, and you’re fine, and we took x rays, maybe you’re a level one, but then you have a chronic issue, you have some sort of weird bone deformity.

Steve Washuta  : And also, I’m looking at something else, and then I end up doing an in office procedure. Maybe that’s I charge that as a level three to insurance, right? So so yes, you’re giving people bad incentives, right to do more procedures that might not need to be done in the first place. What I wish would happen is, and some some businesses started to do this, I think Johnson and Johnson was the first one to do it is that they had internal health, I guess you would say parameters that, that that, that give incentives and disincentives based upon certain metrics.

Steve Washuta  : So for example, most people know the smoking one, that’s for a lot of businesses, right? If you smoke, you might pay a little bit more on your health insurance, you might have to pay a premium on your health insurance, if you smoke, because you’re so much more likely to come down with some sort of cancer or serious disease, but then it should go the other way, too. If you have good blood pressure, if you have the proper numbers, if you have a certain I’m not gonna say BMI, but whatever, like if you, whatever the whatever the markers and metrics are that are agreed upon,

Steve Washuta  : we don’t have to talk about them now or agree upon them now, but let’s just pick out five that we all agree on. It’s like if you read all five of these, the new pay way less. So that gives incentives for the average person to stay healthy and do it now at the same time that businesses have to provide things that businesses have to provide personal training and fitness classes and access to gyms and these sorts of things, or at least some sort of coupon to go there and reduce the rate of the gym.

Steve Washuta  : Or maybe the government should do that. Right? So you’re talking about the government shouldn’t give some sort of kickback to say, if you go to a gym for 12 months of the year, and you checked in this many times we’re willing to give this amount of money to your back. Wouldn’t that make sense?

Rebecca Washuta  : Yeah. Yeah. So it’s not just hospitals. It’s like it’s this whole modern environment that we’ve created, right? Because no one is incentivized to be well, I mean, like you have to do it of your own volition right? You have to say like, I want to be healthy for me and for my family, because otherwise you’re not incentivized by your job.

Rebecca Washuta  : Doctors aren’t necessarily incentivized to focus on prevention. Right 15 minutes with a patient isn’t isn’t enough. It just it’s such a backwards bottle now so I mean, that’s why we do What what we do to you know, sort of be upstream of everything and try to catch things before they happen. Instead of managing, you know, conditions, let’s try to prevent them before they happen. 

Steve Washuta  : So there’s also we’re not there’s what there’s another. There’s another quick small fix here. Obviously the in every you look at the numbers, in school systems and in hospital systems, it’s even worse than school systems. And there’s such a bloat in the management in that second tier management level, right? So you look at a school where when we went to school, it was a principal, Vice Principal, a guidance counselor, and then teachers, not anymore.

Steve Washuta  : There’s a principal, there’s an assistant principal, there’s a vice principal, there’s for guidance counselors, there’s the there’s a, then they just start making up positions, right? There’s all these like, a like, I oversee the guidance counselor’s I’m the head guidance counselor oversees the other guidance counselors. It’s like, oh, I oversee the board vice principals. And they just they keep building up too many, you know, as they say, maybe this is, you know, let’s say it’s anymore.

Steve Washuta  : It’s football, but too many chiefs, not enough Indians. And you know, we have too many people at the top and not enough people working at the bottom that causes causes issues. And there’s so many people who just have these jobs. He’s currently sort of corporate management, mid mid level jobs that aren’t actually producing when you look at like production that goes on where instead, you could, there’s so much, there’s so much stress on medical workers.

Steve Washuta  : So instead of having two nurses who rotate back and forth, you could hire for nurses, if you fired the head nurse, who just sits in a corporate office and looks over resumes, right? Give that job to someone else, combine all those jobs, and then make everyone work a little bit less now I can pay, you know, now I can pay for nurses instead of two nurses to do the same job, they work less hours, they’re less likely to quit, and the less over run.

Steve Washuta  :  So I think there’s a reason to be a push at some point to just x a lot of that. Really what happened is that there was this big push in our in our error from our times from people like our mom, even who they’d go, oh, it’s important to get a master’s degree.

Steve Washuta  : No one’s gonna care about master’s degrees. And then they only they got these like corporate level jobs, where that was the only place that they can go and they designed this whole this whole sort of like Job structure for people who didn’t have like CEO titles, or for people who were weren’t considered like workers because I went to extra years of school. And there’s just there’s too much bloat. There’s the most of these people are not needed.

Rebecca Washuta  : Steve Washuta for president, everyone. No, I appreciate that. I think I think that makes a lot of sense.

Steve Washuta  :  Well, we’ll end on that note, thank you for joining the Trulyfit podcast I’m sure we’ll do this again and listeners when you send in some topics you’d like us to discuss whether they’re fun or whether they’re just something fitness and health wise, you have a question about that either. Becca’s expertise or mine.

Rebecca Washuta  : Thanks again.

Steve Washuta: Thanks for joining us on the Trulyfit podcast. Please subscribe, rate, and review on your listening platform. Feel free to email us as we’d love to hear from you.

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